So I just got this thing in from amazon. The wait has been quite painful.
I have this thing setup with a DVI to HDMI cable. The screen is beautiful. Pictures don't do this thing much justice, but I went ahead and snapped some low quality ones. Overall, I am enjoying this monitor very much except for the fact there is one stuck pixel that looks purple on white back grounds about 3.5" from the bottom, 7" from the left side. I am running a unsticker program on it now, but I am not sure if I will get the results that I am hoping for.

Edit: Got my replacement in from amazon. 0 Stuck or dead pixels :D

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/5130/img2725yy2.th.jpg (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2725yy2.jpg)http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/8924/img2726cw2.th.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2726cw2.jpg)http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6197/img2736nr3.th.jpg (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2736nr3.jpg)

Edit: added another image
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congrats and you went w/ an excellent choice!
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We got the 52" Series 7 ToC version and it's a great TV! I'm getting the T220HD one in a few days. Samsung is bringing some hightly praised products and I can see why!
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Yeah I love the display....except for that stuck pixel lol. The green color in it does not work. I just wish it was in a less obvious spot.
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I did not like the high input lag in SC and UT3 and 5ms didn't help in UT3 either on this, but 15000:1 and the superior colors after calibration on this reflective panel was nice, it is too bad samsung didn't include the 120hz for this and at least try to fix the input lag for the 650 series even though they know their TV have fucked up lag from the 71 series
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Samsung PVA panels have the worse lag in monitors, I wouldn't really expect better in TVs with PVA panels. It just seems to be the nature of the beast. If there was an easy fix, I am sure they would have fixed it by now.
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Here is a quote from the AVS Forums

I just got my 52A650 last night and did some lag tests with Rock Band. Previously, I was using the Plasma preset on Rock Band. I didn't change the Plasma setting. I picked Blitzkrieg Bop and played it on Medium and hit 100% of the notes using Game mode. I then selected LCD in Rock Band, and couldn't hit squat. Then I tried the custom lag setting, which indicated a -15ms adjustment was ideal. Tried BB and nailed 100% again.

From this limited test, I'd say the lag on Game mode is very minor, since it appears to be no worse than my Panasonic plasma was. Apparently the designers of Rock Band must have figured in a much larger lag figure for their LCD preset, since the game was unplayable with it in my case.

And why is it that the Samsung 305T has been reported as having almost no lag. It is not the panel it is the electronics behing it. The 3007WFP had almost no lag and the 3008WFP has a lot. Is it the H-IPS panel; not hardly. Game mode on the A650 bypasses most of the lag inducing processing and produces good results. The only complaint is that you do not get all of the adjustments to play with.

Read more here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1007540&page=446

Dave
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Correct. Setting the input to PC mode produces even less input lag than game mode. Going from my vx2025wm -> LN32A650 I didn't feel anything.
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Here is a quote from the AVS Forums
And why is it that the Samsung 305T has been reported as having almost no lag. It is not the panel it is the electronics behing it.


You can always put bad electronics behind a faster panel and slow it down (Dell 3008), but PVA is still much slower at the base level.

Lag free 305T is an inaccurate report, but it is good for highlighting the problem with the PVA panels. The 305T is a bare panel with no frame buffer/scaler behind it and it is still presenting about 2 frames of lag. That is medium lag, not no lag and this is as good as it gets for PVA. Compare it to the Dell with a similar setup and an IPS panel.

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=238&p1=2303&ma2=88&mo2=237&p2=2302&ph=12

Now with PVA being the slowest panels you add buffers/processing/scaling on top of that to get the laggiest panels going. Compare a basic 24" PVA samsung with some processing to the highly processed NEC 2690. 12bit internally calibrated LUTs, frame buffers, screen compensation, the works. The NEC still has a significant lead and is only lagging near the level of the naked PVA panel (305T).

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=332&p1=3107&ma2=52&mo2=149&p2=1606&ph=12

The base panel technology from everything I have seen for lag is no frames or about 0ms lag for TN, under 1 frame for IPS (~10ms) and about 2 frames for PVA (~30ms).

To this you can probably add 1 to 3 more frames for the processing in a typical LCD TV. Good luck finding a PVA based TV that has lag under 45ms even in "game mode". If you don't notice, that has more to do with you than it does with the panel being lag free.
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Correct. Setting the input to PC mode produces even less input lag than game mode. Going from my vx2025wm -> LN32A650 I didn't feel anything.

The VGA input is even faster, but it does not really count, because it is analog.

Dave
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You can always put bad electronics behind a faster panel and slow it down (Dell 3008), but PVA is still much slower at the base level.

Lag free 305T is an inaccurate report, but it is good for highlighting the problem with the PVA panels. The 305T is a bare panel with no frame buffer/scaler behind it and it is still presenting about 2 frames of lag. That is medium lag, not no lag and this is as good as it gets for PVA. Compare it to the Dell with a similar setup and an IPS panel.

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=238&p1=2303&ma2=88&mo2=237&p2=2302&ph=12

Now with PVA being the slowest panels you add buffers/processing/scaling on top of that to get the laggiest panels going. Compare a basic 24" PVA samsung with some processing to the highly processed NEC 2690. 12bit internally calibrated LUTs, frame buffers, screen compensation, the works. The NEC still has a significant lead and is only lagging near the level of the naked PVA panel (305T).

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=332&p1=3107&ma2=52&mo2=149&p2=1606&ph=12

The base panel technology from everything I have seen for lag is no frames or about 0ms lag for TN, under 1 frame for IPS (~10ms) and about 2 frames for PVA (~30ms).

To this you can probably add 1 to 3 more frames for the processing in a typical LCD TV. Good luck finding a PVA based TV that has lag under 45ms even in "game mode". If you don't notice, that has more to do with you than it does with the panel being lag free.

These results show a difference on average of about 17 ms. Do you have any clue what human reaction times really are? I will give you a hint. You do not measure it in thousnadths.

We all know what your biases are, so quit harping on it. I have read numerious user reviews that are in direct contrast to your point of view. 10e has it right; there many things that contribute to lag. starting with the mouse and ending with the display panel, and including everything in between.

I happend to own the 52 inch A650 and it is more than adequate for gaming.

Later

Dave
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So I just got this thing in from amazon. The wait has been quite painful.
I have this thing setup with a DVI to HDMI cable. The screen is beautiful. Pictures don't do this thing much justice, but I went ahead and snapped some low quality ones. Overall, I am enjoying this monitor very much except for the fact there is one stuck pixel that looks purple on white back grounds about 3.5" from the bottom, 7" from the left side. I am running a unsticker program on it now, but I am not sure if I will get the results that I am hoping for.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/5130/img2725yy2.th.jpg (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2725yy2.jpg)http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/8924/img2726cw2.th.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2726cw2.jpg)

One suggestion; try moving most of your desktop icons to a folder in your start menu. This can be done by right clicking in the start menu and selecting explore. Then make a new folder "My Apps", or whatever and copy your icons to it. Doing this will speedup Windows, because windows has to validate every link when it redraws even part of the desktop.

I have seen this display next to the Sony and Toshiba. It is the better choice.

Dave
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So I just got this thing in from amazon. The wait has been quite painful.
I have this thing setup with a DVI to HDMI cable. The screen is beautiful. Pictures don't do this thing much justice, but I went ahead and snapped some low quality ones. Overall, I am enjoying this monitor very much except for the fact there is one stuck pixel that looks purple on white back grounds about 3.5" from the bottom, 7" from the left side. I am running a unsticker program on it now, but I am not sure if I will get the results that I am hoping for.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/5130/img2725yy2.th.jpg (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2725yy2.jpg)http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/8924/img2726cw2.th.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2726cw2.jpg)

One suggestion; try moving most of your desktop icons to a folder in your start menu. This can be done by right clicking in the start menu and selecting explore. Then make a new folder "My Apps", or whatever and copy your icons to it. Doing this will speedup Windows, because windows has to validate every link when it redraws even part of the desktop.

I have seen this display next to the Sony and Toshiba. It is the better choice.

Sorry for the double post, this sites db is not so good.

Dave
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I am not seeing any backlight bleeding or other anomalies, but I have this one stuck pixel that will not unstick. Is it worth getting an exchange through amazon or is there too much of a risk to possibly getting panel with more problems?
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I happend to own the 52 inch A650 and it is more than adequate for gaming.


In your opinion.

There is certainly at least 45ms of lag with that set and for a lot of people that is too much. A lot of people won't buy an NEC 2490 (pretty much the best LCD on the planet) because it has 30ms lag.

Other peoples subjective opinions are meaningless to me. I just want the numbers because that is what translates. Subjective experience by its very nature, only really applies to that individual and is useless to me.

Edit: Just found a test against an iMac. Where the Samsung lagged from 48ms to 120ms. And this is against another LCD which means it is even worse than that.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13991124&postcount=1381
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45ms of lag
in pc mode it is 31ms if I remember correctly.
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In your opinion.

There is certainly at least 45ms of lag with that set and for a lot of people that is too much. A lot of people won't buy an NEC 2490 (pretty much the best LCD on the planet) because it has 30ms lag.

Other peoples subjective opinions are meaningless to me. I just want the numbers because that is what translates. Subjective experience by its very nature, only really applies to that individual and is useless to me.

Edit: Just found a test against an iMac. Where the Samsung lagged from 48ms to 120ms. And this is against another LCD which means it is even worse than that.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13991124&postcount=1381

That test is way off. There are a lot of happy owners over on the AVS Forum that are very pleased with gaming on this TV. You are the type that obcesses over numbers from tests that you had no part of, and then try to clame it as fact.

Why is it that you go into just about every thread on this forum preaching the same tired BS. We have herd it before and we don't buy it. I personally wanted to hear the OPs impressions, because I have considered buying the same display for the same use, and I wanted to see how it fit on his desk. He was nice enough to provide some pics and real world feedback. When was the last time you actually contributed anything interesting to any thread?

You really need to get off the soap box, because you might be able to learn something.

Dave
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That test is way off. There are a lot of happy owners over on the AVS Forum that are very pleased with gaming on this TV. You are the type that obcesses over numbers from tests that you had no part of, and then try to clame it as fact.


Dave. Go back and see where I joined this thread. SX2233 asked why Samsung didn't fix the lag, I just pointed out this is the nature of the beast and if was easy to fix, samsung would have done so. I wasn't making a big deal about it. You are the one who wanted to make an argument out of it. So you jumped with unsubstantiated claims about no lag on PVA panels. Since then I have just been posting facts to counter the opinions you pull from the nether regions.

I care about numbers because they are measured data. Data that actually quantifies the problem. I bought my first panel (Dell 2405) long before I ever heard of input lag. As soon as I hooked it up I was wondering why the mouse pointer was dragging through molasses. Since then I am very interested in Lag.

Yes I am much more interested in what people actually measure because I have seen a lot of people be really happy and say "what lag" about the 2405 as well. Some people are just not sensitive to lag. So of course their opinions don't matter about lag.


Why is it that you go into just about every thread on this forum preaching the same tired BS. We have herd it before and we don't buy it. I personally wanted to hear the OPs impressions, because I have considered buying the same display for the same use, and I wanted to see how it fit on his desk. He was nice enough to provide some pics and real world feedback. When was the last time you actually contributed anything interesting to any thread?

You really need to get off the soap box, because you might be able to learn something.



As far as my contributions. I have had dozens of meaningful exchanges with people on this forum where both parties learned. Many have thanked me (and I have thanked many) for help. I think the most recent was yesterday. Do you need a pointer?. People often send me PMs to ask me monitor questions. What is your great contribution Dave.

As far as my soap box as you refer to it. I tend to get on it when I run into some Dave who thinks their opinion is fact and measured results that disagree with their opinion can't be right. So they start an argument.

I tend to learn and change my opinions when presented with new data that contradicts(it happens often and I am happy to have it happen), in this thread, you instead are insisting that your opinion is still correct and therefore the data must be wrong.

Maybe you are the one that needs to look at some data, and keep an open mind, if you want to learn something, instead of steadfastly clinging to opinion in the face of contradictory information.
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...I bought my first panel (Dell 2405) long before I ever heard of input lag. As soon as I hooked it up I was wondering why the mouse pointer was dragging through molasses. Since then I am very interested in Lag.

This was apparent even on the desktop?

(With last year's similar Samsung 4065F, hooked up in HDMI/PC mode, and with all processing I could identify turned off, I can't sense any mouse lag. Other issues vs. my former CRTs yes, but not a sense of lag. Though I know CRT vs. LCD, there apparently will be some...)
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This was apparent even on the desktop?

(With last year's similar Samsung 4065F, hooked up in HDMI/PC mode, and with all processing I could identify turned off, I can't sense any mouse lag. Other issues vs. my former CRTs yes, but not a sense of lag. Though I know CRT vs. LCD, there apparently will be some...)

Yes it was noticeable on the desktop. IIRC the measured lag on the Dell 2405 was about 50ms. This seems to be enough for it to feel sluggish to me. I really don't like that feeling. I sold this monitor within a week and went back to CRT. When I did. The CRT movement felt nearly telepathic for the first little while it responded so fast to touch.

I have to stress what people notice is different for everyone. If you search on the 2405, you find people who feel lag on the desktop, those that don't, those who have issues gaming, those who don't etc... The monitor is constant, it is what people notice that changes.

If you are not sensitive to the lag, consider youself lucky, you have a lot more monitors to choose from.
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I can't speak much to games, where I'm mostly just in it for the latest eye candy.

Desktop, try as I might, I can't flush out a perception of delay between mouse and display. (At least at native resolution and with all of the processing settings I can find off or minimized...)

(I do miss the CRT's night time black level and true contrast. I guess Pioneer's Kuro tech might have closed that gap, but burn-in fear, size, and cost, kept me away...)
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I played some Episode 2 today and man the black levels on this thing are amazing.
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Can you sit at 4 feet from it, and still clearly see the text on websites (like this forum, for example)?
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Can you sit at 4 feet from it, and still clearly see the text on websites (like this forum, for example)?
Yes, but I prefer to sit closer than that.
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Here is a quote from the AVS Forums



And why is it that the Samsung 305T has been reported as having almost no lag. It is not the panel it is the electronics behing it. The 3007WFP had almost no lag and the 3008WFP has a lot. Is it the H-IPS panel; not hardly. Game mode on the A650 bypasses most of the lag inducing processing and produces good results. The only complaint is that you do not get all of the adjustments to play with.

Read more here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1007540&page=446

Dave

which by the way destroys the image accuracy
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Not sure about game mode itself, but turning off the processing is generally a good thing. (For example, I've never been much of a fan of dynamic contrast...)
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Is there any good web page where you can see how much input lag you got. I got a S-PVA monitor Sony KDL 32V2000 or Sony XBR 1 which for sure has input lagg even on the VGA input.

If I go to HDMI it get really horrendous lol.
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These measurements were done on a LN40A650, but it should apply for the LN32A650 aswell.

1080p/60hz into HDMI1: average of 90ms of lag. AMP makes no difference between off and high.

HDMI1 on game mode: average of 50ms of lag

HDMI2 labeled PC: average of 33ms
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I did an exchange with amazon and it arrived today. I went through the standard pure green, blue, red, white, black images to see if I had any stuck or dead pixels. After scanning through the images a few time, I OKed it to the delivery man and I was quite happy :D.
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These measurements were done on a LN40A650, but it should apply for the LN32A650 aswell.

That is a frame faster than these measurments where the fastest was 47ms on the HDMI 2 PC:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13991124&postcount=1381

That was also when compared to a iMac so probably another frame on top when comparing to a CRT.

50ms at best seems likely. Very similar to PC PVA monitors.
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That is a frame faster than these measurments where the fastest was 47ms on the HDMI 2 PC:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13991124&postcount=1381

That was also when compared to a iMac so probably another frame on top when comparing to a CRT.

50ms at best seems likely. Very similar to PC PVA monitors.
Uh..I think it is what I linked. The guy did it against a CRT and came to those results. Another guy did a test against against a laptop LCD and he was getting 0ms difference between the two screens on HDMI2 PC.
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I'm thinking of a 40" A650 but for TV and Blu-Ray...

To OP: check your PM please.
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