IS ABOUT TO BE GPL'ed.

http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?category=gamers&id=29933

Neat. :)
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Well now perhaps you see why some people like JC :p

I think it requires at least some respect that he isn't afraid to show his/id's work off to people.
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I love you John Carmack

The day you hear me saying anything like this, please shoot me imediately! :!:
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Carmack expressed frustration with people who get overly protective about code that is largely built on the work of someone else.

as if they don't protect what they consider novel? is he talking about using some elses 3d engine here? or someone doing a mod? (which the modder has no rights to anyway).

or is he thinking that someone adapting a new game from his GPL'd QUAKE3 code would be (mod right?) mostly to his credit? (ie no one could come up with something novel enough to protect)...is he trying to say everything that can be done with the QUAKE engine has been done by them, and so is (mostly) theirs (derivative)?

the justice system is a joke, not meant for the regular guy, i suggest you cover your ass with licenses and/or patent/copyright protection if you feel have something novel (not derivative)
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The day you hear me saying anything like this, please shoot me imediately! :!:
I will, man, I will!

And about Q3 code, I think I'll download it copy/paste a shader engine from MSDN on top of it and call it the Course Engine.*
I'll make big money with it. 8-)



*Hi, Valve stockholders, what you just read was a simple joke. Nothing else, now move along.
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as if they don't protect what they consider novel? is he talking about using some elses 3d engine here? or someone doing a mod? (which the modder has no rights to anyway).

or is he thinking that someone adapting a new game from his GPL'd QUAKE3 code would be (mod right?) mostly to his credit? (ie no one could come up with something novel enough to protect)...is he trying to say everything that can be done with the QUAKE engine has been done by them, and so is (mostly) theirs (derivative)?

the justice system is a joke, not meant for the regular guy, i suggest you cover your ass with licenses and/or patent/copyright protection if you feel have something novel (not derivative)

If you listen to the Keynote, what he's saying is:

*if you're doing a budget title
*if you're using the GPL'd source of Quake 1/2/3

Instead of going to id and paying for a license so that you don't have to share the source, ship your game, don't pay anything to id but put the source on the CD. That's what he means with being overly protective of a source code you're mostly just built on.
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oh. well i can see doing that, if i developed an 'also ran' game. on the other hand if i squeezed something novel and popular out of some old engine, i'd be disappointed if it suddenly became the flavor of the week among the "AAA" devs.

but more importantly, id wouldn't wanna get sued (why i don't wanna do a mod) for capitalizing on my work. i mean part of the 'fun' of development, and impetus for tweaking into the wee hours, is that it just might be the next best thing.
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Not releaseing the source code won't stop people from copying your ideas. A patent might.
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that's what im saying. if you have something novel, protect it, if you're an 'also ran' release the source code.
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Ideas are worthless, implementation is all that matters.
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Doh, I actually paid for Q3. Should have waited.

*smacks forehead*
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Doh, I actually paid for Q3. Should have waited.

*smacks forehead*

It's just the source getting released, all the art assets aren't. Similar story with Q1&2, you needed the .pak files to actually have a game

Cheers
Gubbi
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http://www.bluesnews.com/plans/476/

Quake III Arena source code released under GPL
----------------------------------------------

We're done packaging up the Quake III Arena source code for a GPL release:

af8aaac46cc82035e1cba632b1a16e03 quake3-1.32b-source.zip
ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/source/quake3-1.32b-source.zip

note that a build of Q3Radiant 200f is included under GPL as well
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Thanks Max-Pain.
I've been looking forward to this for a long time.
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Woot!
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that's what im saying. if you have something novel, protect it, if you're an 'also ran' release the source code.
Some people are absurdly protective of their source code. I've run into a couple of such programmers. It really gets to me.

And I can somewhat see why companies would hesitate to release their source code for most projects. Specifically: the software was developed at the cost of a lot of labor. If somebody else makes money from their labor, they'd like the royalties.
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Some people are absurdly protective of their source code. I've run into a couple of such programmers. It really gets to me.

And I can somewhat see why companies would hesitate to release their source code for most projects. Specifically: the software was developed at the cost of a lot of labor. If somebody else makes money from their labor, they'd like the royalties.


i agree. a lot of folks don't know derivative from innovative.

i'd say if you can abstract your game architecture in such a way that much more can be done and with fewer resources, than previous outings for a given engine, you have some value there (better, faster, cheaper). in object oriented approaches, it's all in the abstraction....

and you could also have value if you develop a new game genre that's fresh and entertaining (and pleases everyone). but im not sure that's as protectible. due to the derivative nature of most industries (change a little here and there and voila!)

if you're just another shooter/rpg with different models and locales, you're derivative.

Saem said:
Ideas are worthless, implementation is all that matters.

that is one lame comment. implemention without ideas is a crap shoot as best. a patent requires an original concept AND a working application of it.
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I think that it is inestimable how important is JC practice of distributing source of his engines!
Only when you see things like this:

http://www.tenebrae2.com/tb2_screenshots.html

http://industri.sourceforge.net//shots.php

http://www.quake2evolved.com/news.htm

You can really appreciate enormous importance of his “charity�

BTW

If I understood correctly, the guy that’s working on Tenebrae2 is a member of team behind ET:QW! So, thanx to his work on GPL of Q1 hi is now working in the industry that many of this forum members would like to work�it makes you go hmmm�/div>
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Yes, as a member of the scientific community, I am quite used to this sharing of information. In the scientific community, it is expected that people will be as open as is humanly possible about the work that they complete. This really is the best way to progress science, as we all recognize that nobody is perfect, and people routinely make all sorts of mistakes. The peer-review process and independent verification are cornerstones of science.

Unfortunately, businesses have yet to see the benefits of open sharing of information. Games (hell, technology in general) would progress so much more quickly if information was shared openly. But, unfortunately for us, the majority of the benefit would be to the consumer, and not to these businesses. Businesses would always be concerned about others stealing their work and whatnot.

And yet, open sharing of information shouldn't hurt businesses at all, at least in the fast-moving technology industries. I mean, we have copyright information to prevent a lot of things that would be bad for business, and though businesses certainly wouldn't want to disclose items they are still working on, it makes little sense not to disclose information after product release. That is to say, the free sharing of source code wouldn't remove the reward of money for work done. It would, in the end, reduce the amount of work that is needed, and result in increasing the quality of coding (since developers would be able to share coding practices and techniques more openly). But it will still take significant amounts of work to put products out.
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Wasnt the HL 1 engine basicly an evolution of the Quake 1 or 2 engine? I thought Valve was originally going to use the Quake engine but felt it had too many short comings for what they wanted to do hence they developed their own but having similarities to the base Quake engine?
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that is one lame comment. implemention without ideas is a crap shoot as best. a patent requires an original concept AND a working application of it.

No, in fact, it's right on the money. An idea might have sparked a trip to the moon, but it was nothing short of blood, sweat and tears that got us there. That's all implementation. One can solve all the problems they want in their heads, and then you actually have to do it and it's always a different ball game. Ideas are had by many, and if you engross yourself in a problem, one of those ideas won't be entirely crap and you'll actually arrive at an implementation.

I could design, "teh greatest thing EVAR", patent it and then take it to companies trying to get it built, I'd likely get turned down 99% of the time, because implementation is where all the work is, and if it's such a good idea why don't I take the personal risk to see it to fruition. This is what happens with even lesser inventions.
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