I'm really looking forward to this... hdr, redesigned visuals, and, most importantly, it's DoD! :razz:

GameCloud (http://www.gamecloud.com/article.php?article_id=1589) has an interview with some neat info. There's some new features such as rifle fired grenades, barrels can be rolled around and used as mg mounts, and iron sights. (Woot!)

IGN (http://pc.ign.com/articles/652/652450p1.html) also has a preview. I wish it'd launch with more then 4 maps but there'll be more eventually. I hope I don't have to wait too long until Caen is added.

If you bought the HL 2 gold or silver packages you already own it, otherwise it's 20 bucks (-10% discount if bought before release). Be sure you update Steam and preload DoD: S if you want to play right away.
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this will be fun.... cant wait.. i liked DoD ....
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I tried DoD once and it was pretty good, I didn't get excited about it or try it again though. I played DoD:S for a few rounds today and it was awesome, except that there is way to much kick back on the guns, it makes it unplayable. Example an Axis player was crawling on the ground two feet in front of me and I had the BIG machine gun and I couldn't kill, no matter how many times I pulled down on the mouse and yes he did kill me in the end.
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were you prone?

I like the HDR in this, I like the change in lighting and tone as you go from inside to outside.
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bleh i tried to play it for about 5 min and deleted it, those weapons are insane i cant hit shit with them. i need somthing that comes with a BIG scope, night vision and exploding rounds!
in any case the HDR in this game is crap, there seems to be NOTHING dynamic about the lighting, the walls glow and thats about thats it, no iris effect atall, looks like a way way too overhyped bloom to me(and yes i tested the HDR mode not the bloom one, allthough to tell you the trought i didnt noticed that much diffrence between them).
frankly after all this time i expected much more from valve.
they could have added an integral HDR rendering mode for Source, that doesnt require specific assest in maps to work. FarCry`s HDR modes works in every map, and it doesnt require any extra work, you can make a map via the editor and run it in HDR mode w/o adding special textures or pre-scripting the inviorment(which is needed for HDR:S from what im told)
i expected an iris effect, when you stare at the sun for a few seconds and then look at somthing else it should appear darker for a short time untill your eyes adjust. or when you enter a dark room at first it much more darker then it is, and then your eyes adjust and you see much better. this is waht i expected to see, but i havent seen it in DoD:S seems that every thing in those levels is scripted, if a wall should glow it glows, even if i stare at the sun for 10hours untill im half blind, when i turn to that wall it glows like a 1000w projector for some reason.
the lost coast showed some iris effect implementation, but i have a very strong feeling that it was completly scripted as well. after such along time for dvelopement, valve could brought us an intelligent intergral HDR rendering mode based on the human iris reaction to diffrent levels of lighting. a program that will "scan" every fram and adjust it accordingly, yes it is probably much much harder to do then i could ever imgine, but it somthing they should have done after taking a 5 sweet years for developing the engine, and then more then another year for further developing the lost cost.
if you do somthing do it righty, or not atall.
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in any case the HDR in this game is crap, there seems to be NOTHING dynamic about the lighting, the walls glow and thats about thats it, no iris effect atall, looks like a way way too overhyped bloom to me(and yes i tested the HDR mode not the bloom one, allthough to tell you the trought i didnt noticed that much diffrence between them)

what card are you using? On my 6800GT you definteley get a brightening and then a darkening as you move from inside to outside. If you look directly at the sun you cna see it change size. It's not overstated and works quite nicely IMO.
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what card are you using? On my 6800GT you definteley get a brightening and then a darkening as you move from inside to outside. If you look directly at the sun you cna see it change size. It's not overstated and works quite nicely IMO.

i tried it on a 6600GT and a X800XT.
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well, I dont understand why you cant see it then.
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Well, as someone who played original DoD, i was dominating the servers last night. With any weapon. Its fairly easy to hit people, a bit 'harder' than DoD 1.3, but easy enough once you get the hang of it. Its really great. And the HDR makes it look sex. I dont care about fake or real, I just know it looks damn good.
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I tried DoD once and it was pretty good, I didn't get excited about it or try it again though. I played DoD:S for a few rounds today and it was awesome, except that there is way to much kick back on the guns, it makes it unplayable. Example an Axis player was crawling on the ground two feet in front of me and I had the BIG machine gun and I couldn't kill, no matter how many times I pulled down on the mouse and yes he did kill me in the end.
The machine guns are pathetically wild when shooting. Its pretty bad when rifles dominate a game like this. I really hope they tighten up the machineguns cone of fire. I feel almost like they called Dice to code the machineguns.
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Too bad store purchased copies of HL2 don't get a free copy.
I sure as hell don't want to be paying for DoD:S or giving Valve any more money.
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DoD:S is worth the $20. I want a better vid card now.

The MG42 and 30 cal cone of fire is fine. Just gotta be quick. You can setup in an amazing amount of places around the map.

http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/456/dodavalanche00010xb.jpg

^^ Destorying a pub with k98. I can understand how some may dislike a game as they are getting their asses handed to them. Games take time to get skilled at. Adapt to the classes. :wink:

edit: Also adjusting mouse sensitivity may help some people.
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A mod isn't worth $20 IMO.
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bleh i tried to play it for about 5 min and deleted it, those weapons are insane i cant hit shit with them. i need somthing that comes with a BIG scope, night vision and exploding rounds!
in any case the HDR in this game is crap, there seems to be NOTHING dynamic about the lighting, the walls glow and thats about thats it, no iris effect atall, looks like a way way too overhyped bloom to me(and yes i tested the HDR mode not the bloom one, allthough to tell you the trought i didnt noticed that much diffrence between them).
frankly after all this time i expected much more from valve.
they could have added an integral HDR rendering mode for Source, that doesnt require specific assest in maps to work. FarCry`s HDR modes works in every map, and it doesnt require any extra work, you can make a map via the editor and run it in HDR mode w/o adding special textures or pre-scripting the inviorment(which is needed for HDR:S from what im told)
i expected an iris effect, when you stare at the sun for a few seconds and then look at somthing else it should appear darker for a short time untill your eyes adjust. or when you enter a dark room at first it much more darker then it is, and then your eyes adjust and you see much better. this is waht i expected to see, but i havent seen it in DoD:S seems that every thing in those levels is scripted, if a wall should glow it glows, even if i stare at the sun for 10hours untill im half blind, when i turn to that wall it glows like a 1000w projector for some reason.
the lost coast showed some iris effect implementation, but i have a very strong feeling that it was completly scripted as well. after such along time for dvelopement, valve could brought us an intelligent intergral HDR rendering mode based on the human iris reaction to diffrent levels of lighting. a program that will "scan" every fram and adjust it accordingly, yes it is probably much much harder to do then i could ever imgine, but it somthing they should have done after taking a 5 sweet years for developing the engine, and then more then another year for further developing the lost cost.
if you do somthing do it righty, or not atall.

Quoted for justice. You pretty much summed up what I would've said :)
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I think it's brilliant, the game play is nothing new, it's just the same as DOD pretty much.

The main difference is in the graphics and sound which are both pretty good. I think Valve have done an excellent job with the HDR lighting, it's not just bloom as some people seem to think. Infact I can't believe anyone is saying that there is no iris effect, it's so blatant when the exposure changes that it's just a bit over the top. The colours in the game are vastly enhanced by the HDR lighting and the iris effect looks very cool. Switching HDR off made barely any difference to performance as well, which was very supriseing and you can use FSAA with Valves HDR as well.

I think DODS is the first game to have deceant and practicle HDR, it also has brilliant game play IMO.

EDIT: a video of DODS with the iris effect http://gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1521 . I think it came from halflife2.net so it's not taken by valve or scripted or any of that other Valve ****** flame baiting nonsense.
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I have no problem hitting enemies. If you don't hit them, you really have to aim better. Sorry, but that seems to be the truth.

HDR is dynamic in the game. The effect increases or decreases depending on how much the area is lighted I am in and how long I am watching the same direction. And I have a ATi X800 Pro.

Only real problem seems to be that almost all servers are lagging. Hopefully they will fix that soon.
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I definitley notice the HDR and I have a X700Pro
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I definitley notice the HDR and I have a X700Pro

Hell, I am running a 9800Pro and the HDR is working nicely for me. Very nice effect and a lot more understated that the other implementations we have seen thus far.
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The HDR to be honest didn't really impress me, for the hit in framerate i don't believe it's worth it.

As with the game, well 4 maps is a joke and they're small and to be honest reuse a lot of the textures that are in CS:S/HL2. I don't understand why it took them 1 whole year to make 4 maps and they're remade ones too, not original designs.

The gameplay, well it's ancient and gets old quick, also the recoil and accuracy of the guns is terrible. the thompson, no matter if you're in prone and not moving, the first shot never hits the center of the cross hairs, never. I believe that the first shot should hit where you aim, then after that the recoil should throw your shots off target. That's where bursting comes in. but it appears no matter what you do, the thompson is only usefull in short range battles. medium forget it you'll miss always, long range buwahaha. The medium machine guns have way to much kick and suffer from similar accuracy issues, and really don't do any more damage than the smg guns it seems, they're totally useless close range and at most ranges. Heavy machine guns are overpowered. Since the maps are so cramped and there are tonnes of choke points, it's easy to rack up kills with the heavy machine, just setup in the right spot and it's easy to mow people down, you can just keep your finger down on the button and spray away and the accuracy never really changes much and it kills targets quick. Snipers, well they can just find a good camping spot in choke points and kill away, 1 shot kill with sniper weapons. Overall weapons just aren't right imo and the gameplay is seriously antiquated, first CS:S, now DOD:S. C'mon valve at least try and give us something new and interesting in the gameplay department. This whole retread tired old mods is just not happening, and it sad that they can't even deliver all of the original maps on release. CS:S we're still waiting for all the maps and more skins.

Valve has disappointed me far to many times, i won't bother anymore with their stuff and it sad that the pc industry holds them in high regard, to be honest if this is the future of pc gaming they're trying to deliver then no wonder the market is shrinking.
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Still fun to play. The new HDR looks great. My system gets a little bogged down if things get crazy. I thought my system would handle it better. Only thing I would have thought was needing more memory.
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You can never please everyone.
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You can never please everyone.As expected. It's a 'mod'. Yet a mod thats only $20. Beats the pants off anything out there WWII wise. Looks fantastic, and plays great for people who arent nubcakes. 4 maps is plenty for now, not as if we werent gonna be getting a few more in the coming months. And judging by the skill of the pubbers, they need all the time they can get to learn the 4 maps.
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I have no problem hitting enemies. If you don't hit them, you really have to aim better. Sorry, but that seems to be the truth.

Only real problem seems to be that almost all servers are lagging. Hopefully they will fix that soon.
#1. That's simply not true. You can check this yourself simply but starting your own server & only allowing yourself. Use any machinegun or even handgun. Stand about 15/20 feet (or more if you like) from any wall & shoot it. Its painfully obvious that the bullets pretty much never land where the crosshair is (all on the outside of the crosshair unless you use a giant console game like crosshair)..... If anything you have to aim worse (off your target) to get the bullets to hit a target when it comes to Machineguns & Handguns. & before you go trying to educate someone. Yes I tried single shot & bursts. Rifles when not looking down the iron sights are pretty pathetic as well but at least they are pretty much dead on when looking down the sights. & Scopes, well they are dead on as well. Like I said. Rifles pretty much dominate. Handguns are a little more accurate then the machineguns.

#2. Servers are laggy because many people don't have a clue as to how to run a server with the amount of upload they have. I was in a server on the release date where we all froze for a few seconds. I said. Lag? & someone replied with. "Sorry server alt tabbed to desktop" I was like farking unreal! This guys running the server on the machine he's playing on.
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Rifles pretty much dominate. Handguns are a little more accurate then the machineguns.

Well thats the nature of the guns though. Some people like to get it as authentic as possible. But i've seen exagerations. It should pretty much be (Accuracy wise) Rifles<Handguns<Machineguns

One is because of the Burst and second Rifles are made with precisions in mind where Machineguns (on the opposite spectrum) should spray bullets. With machineguns you also have to take in account recoil.

#2. Servers are laggy because many people don't have a clue as to how to run a server with the amount of upload they have. I was in a server on the release date where we all froze for a few seconds. I said. Lag? & someone replied with. "Sorry server alt tabbed to desktop" I was like farking unreal! This guys running the server on the machine he's playing on.

Thats fricken funny. I understand in a LAN environment, to Host with the machine your playign on. But on the general net...thats just rediculous. I like Battlefields 2 way of hosting out servers for use.
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I normally understand the attempt at weapon realism but its pretty horrid in this case with the hand guns & machine guns. Its like the player can barely lift the weapon & is firing it with noodle arms. I am looking into making a fraps vid to show just how awefull it really is.

I like the game & the more I play it, obviously the better I am getting but personally I can't see myself playing it to long when I have to literally aim worse to hit a target unless I am hugging the enemy. COD2's use of the Thompson & its accuracy were pretty good I thought.
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I normally understand the attempt at weapon realism but its pretty horrid in this case with the hand guns & machine guns. Its like the player can barely lift the weapon & is firing it with noodle arms. I am looking into making a fraps vid to show just how awefull it really is.

I like the game & the more I play it, obviously the better I am getting but personally I can't see myself playing it to long when I have to literally aim worse to hit a target unless I am hugging the enemy. COD2's use of the Thompson & its accuracy were pretty good I thought.

I've never played Counter Strike: Source (probably will soon though). But I heard that that game also has horrid aim. The attempt at ultra realism does get annoying though and to be honest...alot of the crazy spraying of bullets is just not real. Alot of the current gun technology is very precise and theres techniques being used to lower recoil (Less Recoil=Beter Aim). What I hate though, is when a game like to manipulate bullet deviation (In sniper rifles). A horrendous affect that is believed to be used in Battlefield 2..although there is a theory that the physics of the game affects to the bullet (creating bullet drop).
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I played some CS:S & from what I remember the accuracy was far better. At any rate. I think I am more or less just killing time till Q4 comes out. But for the record. Swat4 has great accuracy vs. recoil.
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CSS guns are far more accurate than the CS 1.6 versions. People complain, but they don't seem to realise that the ranges being dealt with are nothing compared to what these guns can really do.
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The problem in CSS is that spraying leads to a headshot 90 percent of the time. You could fire 30 rounds and only have one of them hit, that one hit will be a headshot guaranteed. It's as if your head is a magnet.

The other problem regards hitboxes that do not stay on the model. This often leads to hits that weren't actually anywhere near the target.
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The other problem regards hitboxes that do not stay on the model. This often leads to hits that weren't actually anywhere near the target.
I noticed this yesterday while spectating on my DoD server. Looks like its still not fixed which will be another reason I won't play it long.
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The problem in CSS is that spraying leads to a headshot 90 percent of the time. You could fire 30 rounds and only have one of them hit, that one hit will be a headshot guaranteed. It's as if your head is a magnet.

The other problem regards hitboxes that do not stay on the model. This often leads to hits that weren't actually anywhere near the target.

You need to do some more reading on Source networking. Yes, the hitbox isn't on the model and it's entirely intentional, and once you've read up you'll know why. Aim at the model, the model and nothing but the model. Don't lead the target, don't drop behind the target, aim at the model.

There's a lot of s*** circulating regarding the Source netcode. It's what happens when you have a game where aiming is 50% out of your hands, people blame everything except the obvious... blind feckin' luck. The net code is fine, if people want predictable hits then they're playing the wrong games.

As I've always said, a pro knows when to spray and when to pray ;) Nothing wrong with spraying, and yes, there's more HSs in CSS than 1.6, in no small part to the 1.6 guns having little to do with your crosshair :)
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You need to do some more reading on Source networking. Yes, the hitbox isn't on the model and it's entirely intentional, and once you've read up you'll know why. Aim at the model, the model and nothing but the model. Don't lead the target, don't drop behind the target, aim at the model.

I know exactly how the netcode works. If you watch people play you'll often see them firing behind the player and getting hits. The lag compensation is even more ridiculous.

There's a lot of s*** circulating regarding the Source netcode. It's what happens when you have a game where aiming is 50% out of your hands, people blame everything except the obvious... blind feckin' luck. The net code is fine, if people want predictable hits then they're playing the wrong games.

That is the problem, it is based primarily on luck rather then skill because of what I mentioned above. People spray randomly at someone and somehow manage to hit them even though their crosshair wasn't anywhere near the model. The random headshots just make the matter that much worse. To top it off, sometimes you can be firing directly at someone and not get any hits. Where's the sanity in that?

As I've always said, a pro knows when to spray and when to pray ;) Nothing wrong with spraying, and yes, there's more HSs in CSS than 1.6, in no small part to the 1.6 guns having little to do with your crosshair :)

I've been playing off and on for five years, I know a thing or two about aiming and spraying. Despite this, the game often doesn't register my shots and/or someone gets a one hit headshot on me. It's infuriating and turns me off of the game the more I play.
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May I sum up the hitbox argument with this? http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=css_hit_b0x_bb
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May I make a rebuttal to your summation of the hitbox argument with this?

http://media.putfile.com/SourceHITBOX82

And also, for DoD:S:

http://media.putfile.com/DODSHITBOX
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May I make a rebuttal to your summation of the hitbox argument with this?

http://media.putfile.com/SourceHITBOX82

And also, for DoD:S:

http://media.putfile.com/DODSHITBOX

Yeah except you cannot see the hitboxes normally, so shooting at the model is effectively like shooting at air. Does that make sense to anyone else?
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I know exactly how the netcode works. If you watch people play you'll often see them firing behind the player and getting hits. The lag compensation is even more ridiculous.

Uh, wrong.

You're not seeing what they're seeing, you're seeing what YOUR client is seeing. Your client is not going to see exactly what their client sees, the net isn't fast enough. Yes, I've seen this too, but try and actually do it, it really REALLY doesn't work.
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I know exactly how the netcode works. If you watch people play you'll often see them firing behind the player and getting hits.

This is because of the lag, not because the player is aiming behind what HE sees.

People spec me and have said I shoot behind people. That's not what I see.
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You're not seeing what they're seeing, you're seeing what YOUR client is seeing. Your client is not going to see exactly what their client sees,
I can understand how that might be a decent reason. However it seems most of the videos you see are not from spectator view. I did witness several shots behind models while spectating my DOD:S server. Personally I have never questioned hitboxes (that I can honestly recal except for BF2 just within the past few months) while spectating or playing any Quake, UT, or many other FPS games.

the net isn't fast enough.
This one I have a very hard time accepting. I've never noticed "the net" not being fast enough (accept many years ago when on 56k) with most other FPS games like UT & Quake games as well as many others. Its possible to send multiple megs of data over the net (can personally get 6 megs down) but yet I am to believe "the net" isn't fast enough for me to see exactly what a player is seeing when I am spectating. mmmmmmmmm-k

& as far as that DOD Vid Negativity linked to (only watched the DOD vid). Almost every shot the target is running at or away from the shooter. Thus the hitbox would be mostly in line with the model. Personally I don't really care either if the Source engine has a flaw with hitboxes or not. I don't play any of the Source mp games on a regular basis & I won't be playing DoD long either. I know for a fact that HL2-DM at 1 time had an issue with hitboxes/bounding box (http://www.elitebastards.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10571&highlight=) as it was in a fix update. If the Source Engine has had an issue with hitboxes 1 time it certainly is possible that it can have issues to this day. I found out about the CS:S hitbox vid after finding out about the hitbox issues BF2 has & thought it might be a good example of what might be the problem with BF'2s hitboxes. But I gave up caring about BF2 getting fixed.
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If you get somone to record a demo of themselves playing then you will see that there not shooting behind the target. Although I have got headshots from an awp when my aim was no where near the player, it generally doesn't happen if the server tick rate is at 100 and so are peoples rates.

Generally whether or not you get a kill comes down to 70% skill, 29% tactics and 1% luck in a good server. If it didn't then people wouldn't be able to consistantly get scores of 20-1 in the first few rounds on a large server with maxed out rates.

It's easy to blame it on reg when you loose, but really you didn't control your fire or just plain missed. CSS & CS allow for a huge range in player abuility, which is why they are the most competitive computer games.
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Yeah. CS:S, as well as DoD:S requires skill. You wouldn't have only a few people owning up the servers if it was "so much" luck as people claim.
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Yeah. CS:S, as well as DoD:S requires skill. You wouldn't have only a few people owning up the servers if it was "so much" luck as people claim.
CS:S, DoD:S, any Quake game, any Unreal/UT, & pretty much any PC game for that matter that I can think of do not "require skill" to play. Basically it requires being able to see & have functioning arms/hands. My almost 60 year old mother can jump on any of these games & play them. Will she be good at it? No. Will she care if she's good at it? no. Every game has multiple player skill levels. Some will be great some will not & some won't care if they are or not. There is a very huge difference in being "skilled" at a game & a possible "flaw" within a game. Can a possible flaw in a game allow a average player to do better in a game? Yes. Can a possible flaw in a game allow a great player to be even harder to beat. Yes. Does CS:S have a possible flaw? I don't think its been 100% proven that it does or does not. At best it seems that there are those on both sides saying there is & isn't a hitbox flaw. 1 side could very well be in total denial as they wouldn't want to admit that maybe they are not as skilled as they think they are, while the other side could very well be getting beat on a regular basis & not want to admit they are as bad as they really are. Either way. Neither CS:S or DoD:S "require skill" to play........

As far as the Vids supporting either side of the arguement. I think at best they cancel each other out as supporting either side. Unless any can be proven to be edited to support a side.
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The only reason you get this bitching in DOD and CSS and not Q3, UT etc. is because in the later the game is entirely in the players control, while in the former the gun scatter means it's not and people whine like bitches... oh how they whine.

The hitboxes are really, really not wrong. Read up. If the hit box is ON the model then something is seriously wrong.
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Do UT&Q3A use lag compensation? (Spawn of Satan IMO ... screw HPBs.)
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Doesn't the hit box make it more realistic in that you have to point a little ahead of the person to hit them (so them running horizontal to you and you pointing the gun straight at them..the bullet should miss them because their running horizontal to you). I'm not sure, that in real life that actually happens (never was in an actual gunfight :p ).

The bullet scatter is fine if implimented correctly. I've never played CS but sometimes developers make it so it scatters unrealisticly. That creates frustration from on the gamer. I say, make bullet scatter but as realistic as possible and don't over exagerate it just for gameplay.
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Uh, wrong.

You're not seeing what they're seeing, you're seeing what YOUR client is seeing. Your client is not going to see exactly what their client sees, the net isn't fast enough. Yes, I've seen this too, but try and actually do it, it really REALLY doesn't work.

You're right, it is because of the lag compensation as I noted. Let me ask you, have you ever jumped out, then run back only to seemingly get shot by a magic bullet that can turn corners? This is what happens in CSS because of the crappy lag compensation and the supposedly slow net as you claim. The client and server don't communicate fast enough and so the update to your movement is ignored. Even though you have moved on the client the person in front of you still sees you and fires. The server, not having updated your position yet thinks you're still there, registers the shot and thus kills you no matter your position. Yeah, great netcode. http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif

And this does not even explain the reasoning behind the magnetic head anomoly.

The real complainers are those who don't know what they're talking about, pretend they do, and then insult anyone who questions the reasoning behind the game's methodology; esentially hypocrites.
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You're right, it is because of the lag compensation as I noted. Let me ask you, have you ever jumped out, then run back only to seemingly get shot by a magic bullet that can turn corners? This is what happens in CSS because of the crappy lag compensation and the supposedly slow net as you claim. The client and server don't communicate fast enough and so the update to your movement is ignored. Even though you have moved on the client the person in front of you still sees you and fires. The server, not having updated your position yet thinks you're still there, registers the shot and thus kills you no matter your position. Yeah, great netcode. http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif

And this does not even explain the reasoning behind the magnetic head anomoly.


Actually what could happen is either A) The bullet when through the corner of a wall/object B) The player shot you while you were still in full view, but the server didn't relay the fact before you went back behind the wall. (the most common) C) Some of your packets were lost in transmission and the server registers the shot before you update your position, speed and oreintation.

tbh I don't think netcode gets much better, I noticed similiar oddities when I used to play UT03 instant gib and that tended to have more laggy movement than css at the same latency. BTW I don't think Painkiller has any lag compensation, try playing it with a ping of 60-100, you need a latency in the 20's to have a deceant game. Also I think everything is handled server side (i.e you send your raw commands to the server rather than updateing your status). Works nice in lans, but not over the interweb, it would be good if you could switch between the two systems in css.
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Lag compensation is necessary in my opinion. I used to play Quake 2 on a modem years back, and that game had no lag compensation whatsoever. Then you'd had to aim into the 'future', which kinda sucks. Especially if your average ping changes every time you play the game. The sometimes lag kills are an unfortunate side effect. But they are well worth the tradeoff if you ask me.

However, I think that the net code decreased in quality in Half Life 2 when compared to Half Life 1. Stupid things like when you run into a wall, that you get an apparent stutter when the server corrects your position. And such a thing can be perfectly be predicted by the client. Half Life 1 and MODs simply don't suffer from such a stupid bug. And I don't have the confidence in Valve that they will fix those irritating things anytime soon.
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Lag compensation is entirely necessary IMO because latency is too high to play otherwise. Play with the standard ping of 30-40 without it and you'll find out the hell that it is.

If that sort of thing upsets you then you'll have to stick to the only real gaming arena there is: LAN gaming.
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This thread is nonsense. I've been playing CS since alpha1. The aim is perfect the way it is and does not need to be changed. You people sound like you love SPRAY and PRAY aiming systems and games with lots of area effect splash damage (e.g. N00B) weapons. In CS, if you pick up the AK47 for example, it is completely inaccurate if you open up on full auto, but if you shoot single shots or burst shots, it is deadly accurate. Each type of a weapon has different recoil characteristics and different reactions to movement, jumping, crouching, etc. The AWP sniper rifle is deadly accurate at any range (and I mean ANY), but you have to be almost motionless to get this effect. in CS, accuracy is not only controlled by recoil, but by player movement/position.

CS requires skill to use the weapons. You can not just aim your cursor and start button mashing/full auto. It requires strategy and stealth. You can't get away with running around firing your full load. Generally, high-fire rate == inaccuracy in CS. (there are a few exceptions of guns you can rush around with and fire full auto and reasonably control the recoil)

Watch someone in a professional league play CS, and you'll see it has nothing to do with the aiming system and everything to do with *skill*
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DemoCoder has it.
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Its almost exactly the same in Battlefield2. Full-Auto is perfect for a group of enemies where your just spraying bullets in their general direction. Semi-Auto is good for one on one where you want accuracy. Single shot is good for longer range shots where Full and Semi Auto would just be to inaccurate.

I do sometimes use Semi-Auto for long range though, you just tap the fire button (whatever it may be) quickly. This will alow a couple of bullets to fly the enemies way..but you still maintain control. Thats the general tactic i've been using.
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IMO, there are times in CSS when spray and pray is far more effective then burst, but then skill is all about knowing when to do what. Those who thinks the net code is crap just need to get better at the game IMO.
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Wow HDR full time looks great.

I play at 1024x768 with *High* settings and full HDR and am averaging between 60-80+ FPS depending on the action.

This X850pro can handle the graphics really well. I am impressed.

I have not tried to use FSAA yet? Does it work with this?

Anyway.. HDR really makes a game have a natural look. Quite impressive.
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I use 1024 with 2xAA/AF on a 6800 vanilla. No HDR anymore though. The people move to fast for that(if im getting sub 40 fps) when I need to k98 them to death. But yeah HDR in this game looks great. Brings it to life. I'm ready to see what the new x1800xt can do in dod:s. Maybe some reviewer will knowledgable enough to benchmark it.

And true that Quilch. :)
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So my 62 year old dad was playing DoD: S. A guy throws a grenade at him and my dad shoots the nade when it's in the air. The nade bounces away and explodes harmlessly. :razz:

On the lag issue, I've noticed far too many times when what I see on screen and what's really happening on the server are two very different things. I commented once that DoD: S now has as much BS as CS. I'm out in the boonies a ways, so I rarely get pings below 60; 80ish is typical. I'm sure that contributes to the problem.


Now for a long winded analysis of my favorite class:

I've been a kar whore since DoD was pre-retail, back in the days before they added newbie features such as team id flags above characters and a magic map that shows where everyone's at. K98 feels different in the Source version; the timing to jack a new cartridge seems longer and the aim takes some adjusting. The iron sights mode doesn't work as well as I'd like, mainly in that it takes too long to bring up and you can't move when using it. (I've been spoiled by Red Orchestra's excellent iron sights mode.) Many shots that'd be a kill in the original now do 82 damage. I'd also prefer to be able to prime and throw nades again, but the rifle grenades are usefull.

The overall effect is to weaken the Grenadier class noticably. You'd better get a kill in your first shot... otherwise you're dead assuming the other player knows which side of the gun is supposed to point towards the enemy.

In close range encounters, it's worse. Can anyone explain why submachine gun classes get a melee attack? If someone's carrying the freaking Tommy gun, that's all they need! The dude with the bolt action rifle is left standing there, jacking in a new cartridge, looking stupid as the dude with the submachine gun fills him full of 15 rounds... or, if the submachine gunner prefers, walks over and bonks him in the head. :roll:

In spite of my complaints, it's overall a very good game. It looks great and is fun to play except for the occasional BS.

I'd say it's gameplay is second to the penultimate WW2 shooter. That distinction goes to the Red Orchestra mod for UT2004.
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So my 62 year old dad was playing DoD: S. A guy throws a grenade at him and my dad shoots the nade when it's in the air. The nade bounces away and explodes harmlessly. :razz:

On the lag issue, I've noticed far too many times when what I see on screen and what's really happening on the server are two very different things. I commented once that DoD: S now has as much BS as CS. I'm out in the boonies a ways, so I rarely get pings below 60; 80ish is typical. I'm sure that contributes to the problem.


Now for a long winded analysis of my favorite class:

I've been a kar whore since DoD was pre-retail, back in the days before they added newbie features such as team id flags above characters and a magic map that shows where everyone's at. K98 feels different in the Source version; the timing to jack a new cartridge seems longer and the aim takes some adjusting. The iron sights mode doesn't work as well as I'd like, mainly in that it takes too long to bring up and you can't move when using it. (I've been spoiled by Red Orchestra's excellent iron sights mode.) Many shots that'd be a kill in the original now do 82 damage. I'd also prefer to be able to prime and throw nades again, but the rifle grenades are usefull.

The overall effect is to weaken the Grenadier class noticably. You'd better get a kill in your first shot... otherwise you're dead assuming the other player knows which side of the gun is supposed to point towards the enemy.

In close range encounters, it's worse. Can anyone explain why submachine gun classes get a melee attack? If someone's carrying the freaking Tommy gun, that's all they need! The dude with the bolt action rifle is left standing there, jacking in a new cartridge, looking stupid as the dude with the submachine gun fills him full of 15 rounds... or, if the submachine gunner prefers, walks over and bonks him in the head. :roll:

In spite of my complaints, it's overall a very good game. It looks great and is fun to play except for the occasional BS.

I'd say it's gameplay is second to the penultimate WW2 shooter. That distinction goes to the Red Orchestra mod for UT2004.


I know how you fell and I hope new updates will fix the problems with damage and the malay bugs like seeing your fist go throu bodies many time with no damage delt. The lag is a big problem too and its not a ping problem. Looks like its going to be about 3 months of update to fix the problems and when the problems are fix it will be a great game.

If you want you will find me on the [REB] server.
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Day of Defeat: Source and Source Engine Updates Available
October 19, 2005, 4:12 pm · Alfred Reynolds
Updates to Day of Defeat: Source and the Source Engine have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The specific changes include:


Source Engine

* cl_predict is now treated as a cheat
* Disallow the '%' character in names and the '#' character when at the start of a name
* Removed debug cvar snd_mixvol



Day of Defeat Source

* Added defense scoring bonus. Players now get a point for blocking an area cap that is over 50%, either by killing a player required for the capture, or by entering the capture area
* Fixed an issue with players not respawning on round restart
* Changed to new arm hitbox code - uses hitbox groups to swap between hitbox sets with and without arms. This will prevent shots to the chest area from hitting the target player's arms
* Increased Thompson and MP40 melee attack rate to match knife/spade
* Fixed situation where melee attacks weren't hitting target when they should have
* Fixed accuracy on semi-auto and full-auto for bar and MP44 being swapped
* Semi automatic is now more accurate than fully automatic
* Darkened background of scoreboard to make it easier to read
* K98 iron sights no longer re-zooms after a shot
* Fixed rag doll pose when player went prone with Panzerschreck
* Reduced maximum number of players on a server to 32
* Fixed issue with bullet penetration wasn't happening correctly with displacements
* Optimization related to grenade explosions
* Network optimizations for player, player resource
* Restrict which shaders are allowed to be applied to player models.
* Fixed sniper rifle playing zoom out animation out if the player was not on the ground when they tried to zoom in ( e.g., falling off of a small ledge )
* Friendly fire is now turned off for the bonus round. Be nice to your winning teammates
* Crosshair scale setting is now saved across sessions
* Added log event for tick points
* Added log event for changeclass
* Added log event for flag caps
* Added log event for game over condition
* Added damage, hitbox, weapon info to player_hurt event
* Fixed log events for clan restart events
* Added cvar mp_logdetail ( 0 = no damage logged, 1 = enemy damage, 2 = teammate damage, 3 = both )
* Made input to voice menus all client side
http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=news&id=466
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Like the defense bonus, and the arms issue removed.

snd_mixvol was the equivalent of stopsound for 1.3, shame its gone.
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god I was playing CS last night on office with that stupid switch operated roller door. Without stopsound I would end up driving my face through my monitor I think.
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