Honestly I have lost so much weight doing the Atkins diet. I should post before and after pics. I love this diet but it is really helpful to share information on it. It's easy to get a little bored without a few tips and recipes.
What foods have you found that are low on carbs/sugars that you can eat? Hopefully there are some people in the UK doing this diet because foods can be so different. But I am glad I don't have all those American junk foods to tempt me anymore :)
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Are you sure your not getting him confused with the Wendy's guy? I'm pretty sure that's just a rumor and as far as I know he's alive and well. Where exactly did you hear this? If your gonna be negative please get some actual facts first okie...

And then how do you explain this...(it is a current bio on Dr. Atkins)

Among his many media appearances are those on "The Oprah Winfrey Show," "20/20," "Larry King Live," "CBS Evening News," "The View," "Sally Jessy Raphael," "CBS This Morning,", "Dateline NBC," "The Today Show," "ABC World News," CNN, "48 Hours" and "Good Morning America." Dr. Atkins' work has also been discussed in countless magazines and newspaper articles. In addition, he hosts "Your Health Choices," a nationally syndicated radio show. He continues to be a prolific writer and sought-after speaker. Dr. and Mrs. Atkins live in New York City.
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I was just put off by the fact my first answer to the post was about how dangerous the diet is..and I've heard it all. Funny thing is most people who were warning me about the diet are on it now....mainly because of my results. The diet really does make a lot of sense. This is the way people were designed to eat..we weren't meant to eat all the sugar and wheat that we do but this diet is not for everybody. Don't worry I don't plan on dying tomorrow. But I know you won't worry cuz you don't know me:p I took all the pre and after blood test that are recommended. I would also suggest to anyone trying this diet that they do the same cuz I have GOOD intentions as well ;b

*hides the bitch stick*
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That's terrific you are finding something that works, though its not something I can do, nor do I want to try it. "Diets" that restrict aren't my thing.

Though I've heard that with those high protien diets, you really gotta watch your cholesterol. Was that something that you were advised to watch before starting?
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Your cholesterol actually goes DOWN. But you do have to watch it...not because it is dangerous but because it's interesting to see how it IMPROVES.:O
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be careful galaxygrl.

i was on the atkins diet for about three months; i lost 30 pounds.

then i gained it all back and then some AS SOON AS i started eating carbs again.

just be careful ...
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That's because it is a lifetime diet. It's not a get quick thin diet. Did you pay attention to what your maximum carb level should be? Some people can eat more carbs than others. You might have overdone the carbs.
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Originally posted by Galaxygrl
Your cholesterol actually goes DOWN. But you do have to watch it...not because it is dangerous but because it's interesting to see how it IMPROVES.:O

Wow I guess that's one of those things where it varies. I remember reading before about how some people had to stop doing atkins because it made their cholestoerol go up too much. But people's bodies do handle cholesterol differently.

I have a question about the atkins program--after a certain point are you allowed to eat carbs again?
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Yes you are even allowed one salad during your induction period (which is two weeks). You slightly increase carbs until you reach a level that you know will make you stop losing. After you get to your goal then you just maintain and can put the carbs back into your diet but you must not overdo it. Sugars will also always be bad for you because it makes you crave more sugar. This website is really good and has lots of information about the diet.



http://www.lowcarbluxury.com/main.html
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Yo,
Dr. Atkins is not dead. He suffered frem a heart probbie of sorts . . . which wuz unrelated to his diet (it had a genetic or sumfrin like dat cause). He's still out and about and kickin'.
Take care. Bi bis.
Me, the Flea
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Dr Atkins is an evil butter-filled man!!!
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I give all those Atkins-like diets two huge thumbs down. They are evil, and far from healthy. If the value of your looks outweighs that of your health.....well this is America, the land of choices.
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Honey, I don't live in America.
Weight loss is not about vanity, it is about health and well being.

I thought this forum was for mature discussion, not total negativity and close mindedness.
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I'm sorry you feel so defensive about your diet choices. "Close mindedness" - interesting. Being a certified fitness trainer and a certified sports nutritionist, and researching nutrition and exercise to no end, I feel I am somewhat qualified to offer my opinion.

Since you are such an expert in the field, do you honestly think what you are doing is healthy? In nature, carbohydrates occur much more abundantly than protein. Carbs are essential for healthy neurological and immune system function. Cutting them from your diet is...well, slow suicide.

Please don't bring your bitterness to me just because I don't agree with you. Ask yourself who the mature one is.
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IF you did your research you would see that the Atkins diet does not CUT ALL carbs from the diet.

I made this thread in order to get some support out there from people also doing this diet not to get criticism. I realize that you think you know your stuff and I'm sure you do, but you probably have not taken the time to do all the research on this particular diet.

I also am defensive about my diet choice because I believe it is the correct one for ME. I did not say it was the correct one for YOU. So excuse me if I feel comfortable and safe with the choices I make, I'm not twisting anyone's arm out there saying this is THE diet and I'm not recruiting people or trying to brainwash them into thinking this is the best thing in the world.
Natural carbs are fine, it's just all these man made ones which are overabundant in most foods that people (on this diet) should stay away from.
I'm not bitter, I just won't stand for someone saying I'm commiting "slow suicide." That's ridiculous and frankly quite hurtful.

I think the following paragraph from the lowcarb luxury website explains so many of the misconceptions out there.


"Be aware that there are still MANY misconceptions out there about this diet. You will face lots of skeptics and you may even argue with yourself a little. There are those that believe we are zero carb and eat NO veggies (we eat quite a lot), NO fruits (most plans allow for the low-sugar ones), no grains (we eat only the high fiber unprocessed ones rather than "their" highly processed bleached ones!). There are those who will tell you that ketosis is a "dangerous state" because they confuse it with ketoacidosis. There are those who believe that "fat makes you fat" (because it sounds logical) and will tell you you're going to give yourself a heart attack with all this fat you're eating (when in fact, bad cholesterol and triglycerides go down in almost every case where the low carber follows the plan properly.) And be aware these "opinions" may be held by those who are our nutritionists, our doctors (though more and more doctors are convinced of low-carb's healthfulness), nurses, and others. Care enough about your own life to do the research, to read the books, to make the effort. You're worth it!"
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Obviously there is going to be rave reviews of the low carb diet on that website, and others'. They aren't going to bash their own methods. They are, after all, craving your dollar. I see they make it a point to tell you to visit their bookstore. Remember "honey", they care about your money, not your health. They wouldn't do it if they didn't get rich off it.

Do you really feel you need someone to tell you how to eat? Do they know your specific body makeup? Your metabolic levels? Your digestive efficiency? Do they know which foods will make YOUR body produce higher or lower insulin amounts? Do they know your body weight? Your height? Your age? Your bone density?

If all of this has been addressed and weeded out, then I am humbled. Who am I to argue with experts who have never met you, yet feel they know what you should eat?
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I am sorry I fell to the level of arguing. It is uncharacteristic of me, it is childish, and unproductive. My apologies everyone.
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They are, after all, craving your dollar. I see they make it a point to tell you to visit their bookstore. Remember "honey", they care about your money, not your health. They wouldn't do it if they didn't get rich off it.
I spent ?.99 on one book. I do not need to buy anything else, all the foods I need are available at my local grocer. I can't remember the last time any diet was that simple. I downloaded recepies off the internet for FREE. That particular website is non-profit. If there is a link there to visit a bookstore then it is simply to help out people looking for a book on this diet. I'm sure they will also not spend more than 4.99. I'm sure someone is and could get rich out of all those book at 4.99 but this is after all a world in which one has to make a living and I'm not crying about that tiny meager amount of money spent and I hardly think they are stealing from me.

Also to which "they" are you refering? I am a little puzzled about this "they" of whom you speak of. Is there one large evil force out there trying to convert everyone to their way of eating?

Do you really feel you need someone to tell you how to eat? No. I still eat what I want. I'm just following a few rules of guidance.
Do they know your specific body makeup?
No, which is why there are charts. questionares and consultations with doctors.
Your metabolic levels? Your digestive efficiency No, "they" don't but in several books there are methods in which to monitor these things and nobody is recommending this diet without a proper consultation with a physician. It is also important that you yourself know these things and again that is stated in the Atkins book. So really these questions are pretty irrelevant unless your speaking as someone who has not read the book or done the research.
Do they know which foods will make YOUR body produce higher or lower insulin amounts?
Actually, yes "they" do.
Do they know your body weight? Your height? Your age? Your bone density?
Again, there are guildlines for these just as in any other diet you might consider healthy.
Um, bone density? What does that have to do with anything? If you mean I might not get enough calcium then I sure do wonder what is in that cheese and in those supplements that I take every day.
If all of this has been addressed and weeded out, then I am humbled. Who am I to argue with experts who have never met you, that feel they know what you should eat?
Well if you mean can you consult somebody face to face about this diet well then yes you can. Believe it or not there are doctors who are experts on this diet who can assess your needs just as on any other diet. I'm sure you think you know what I should eat and I've never met you.
I also sure do hope my brother in law who is a very respected and successful heart surgeon knows how dangerous and evil this diet is..or he might just keel over and die because he's on it.
:r
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sjm, that is very cool of you to apologize. I did not mean to be a bitch either. So I'm sorry too.

VenusFetish, you know I just don't think I need to say anything here so I won't. Enjoy the cartoons. :)
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Originally posted by Galaxygrl
"Be aware that there are still MANY misconceptions out there about this diet. You will face lots of skeptics and you may even argue with yourself a little. There are those that believe we are zero carb and eat NO veggies (we eat quite a lot), NO fruits (most plans allow for the low-sugar ones), no grains (we eat only the high fiber unprocessed ones rather than "their" highly processed bleached ones!). There are those who will tell you that ketosis is a "dangerous state" because they confuse it with ketoacidosis. There are those who believe that "fat makes you fat" (because it sounds logical) and will tell you you're going to give yourself a heart attack with all this fat you're eating (when in fact, bad cholesterol and triglycerides go down in almost every case where the low carber follows the plan properly.) And be aware these "opinions" may be held by those who are our nutritionists, our doctors (though more and more doctors are convinced of low-carb's healthfulness), nurses, and others. Care enough about your own life to do the research, to read the books, to make the effort. You're worth it!"

* brainwash alert * looks like its worked on ya too, im sorry to say. There is no easy diet in life. People really need to understand that. Humans are made to eat a wide variety of things in moderation and to cut one of those out would be like to take an animal out of the food chain - detrimental.

This little "paragraph" of yours reminds me of a molester speaking to his molestee. "now, don't tell anyone about this, they'll think its wrong and they'll try to take you away from me, and that's bad. Just remember, Im the good guy and they're the bad people."

It also reminds me of pro-anorexia websites where they tell you to make sure to hide your "food journal" well from anyone so they dont see what you havent been eating, to lie about what you have eaten, to make sure noone knows you are anorexic, etc, etc.

Im not an expert, but I wish I were sometimes. These so called nutritionists are trying to blind you with science, and that is wrong. The only way to lose weight is the natural way, and "natural" is not what these so-called "wonder diets" are.

Matt :O
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*just doing my mod-ly duty*

We can disagree about things. Its bound to happen. But please don't let it degenerate into attacking each other. Not saying its happened yet, but it could. So play nice!

*end mod-ly duty*

Galaxygrl-I've been curious and meaning to ask this. Since we seem to think that "low carb" mistakenly means "no carb", could you perhaps post what your typical daily menu consists of?
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Ok, I'm going to have to stick up for our Galaxygrl here.

She's been getting so much shit from people over this diet and she really doesn't deserve it. Even my husband told me to tell her to be careful and he doesn't know anything about dieting!

At the end of the day, this particular diet is working really well for her. I know her personally and I saw her after she'd been on it for a couple of weeks and I was totally amazed! She looked great, but most importantly, she looked and felt really healthy. Not only did she look thinner, but her skin was brighter and clearer and she just looked great in general. I know that she's following the diet to the letter and doing all the things she needs to do to monitor her cholesterol and blood pressure, etc. In fact, just yesterday she e-mailed me when she got back from getting a blood test at the doctor.

It's hard when you find something that works for you and all day long people are ripping on it and telling you that you're doing the wrong thing. No wonder she's being so defensive! She hears shit about her diet from everyone she tells about it!

I am totally convinced that Galaxygrl is doing the right thing for herself and as a personal friend of hers, I feel I'm qualified to say that.
:)
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This was Today's menu

Breakfast: two slices of whole grain rye bread with no sugar added peanut butter
one huge ass glass of water and my supplements

Lunch: garlic chicken with lots of salad, some cottage cheese on the side
water to drink


Dinner: well I haven't had it yet but I am going to have the following

a bunless hamburger (made from lean beef)
with dijon mustard a little mayo
salad

dessert is a small slice of crustless cheescake sweetened with splenda
an alternative would be some strawberries with cream or some sugarfree jello
water to drink

I also had a snack of some tuna salad earlier today.
Sometimes I'll have Special K for breakfast but I find it's too sweet and has too much sugar in it. It starts making me crave sweets.The other day I found some really nice sugar free chocolate bars and I had those to satisfy my pms chocolate craving.
I'm also not banning myself from carbs for life. I just know that I need to watch my consumption of them because these were the things that made me overweight. If I want a jacket/baked potato then I'll have one, but maybe just one every other week or so. The induction diet is the one where you go by this very controlled strict menu is only to get the ball rolling..just like anybody who would do something like slimfast (personally I get very ill on slimfast) so I don't really see what the big deal is, but everyone is entitled to an opinon.
If you did it for too long then yes it would be dangerous so I understand the concern here. The only things you cut out permanently are things like refined sugar and too many grains. You could still have a bit of banana on your maintence diet. I don't understand why it's bad to cut out sugar for the rest of your life.
Perhaps people associate the Atkins diet with the extreme version of this, but you would find a much tamer versions of this diet (same concept) on a food combo where you just don't combine your carbs and protiens and where you have most of your carbs in the morning when your likely to burn them when you need em.
But if you want to call me wrong then call me wrong, just don't call me..lol *that was my bad attempt at some kind of Riki Lake come back where I'm a big evil drag queen cheating on my trucker husband*
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Thank you for posting that Galaxygrl. I've read about those high protien low carb diets where you have all this meat and dairy and stuff, but your plan doesn't really look like that (or at least todays menu doesn't)

I can certainly feel you on the carb leading to being overweight thing. I know my weakness for carbs isn't helping me out any. (says the person, who many a time in my 6 years in college would eat JUST pasta for dinner!) I know I need to cut back on the carbs, and start having more of the whole grain, high in fiber ones.

Instead of Special K, is Total available near you? I used to eat it all the time for breakfast and it wasn't sweet at all. I'm trying to find some nutritional info on it, and can't find any at the moment.
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Instead of saying low carb, wouldn't it be better to say that you're cutting out all the sugar that you possibly can? Because aren't there quite a few carbs (from starch) in bread, and there's also carbs in meat. I think no sugar/low sugar diet would be better to say than no carbs/low carbs. (even though i know sugars are carbs, of course, there are other forms of carbs which you seem to be getting)

Matt :O
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Hi Galaxy, I haven't seen you around before. :)
My name's Jordie. I am just about finished getting my qualifications in personal fitness training and sports nutrition. I live in Aberdeenshire but I'm originally from Kent. I'm a philosophy freak and I'm currently writing my first novel, so remember my name.;b

Okay, it's late.. I'm going to write more about this later. So for now I'll just say: I am personally opposed to the diet, but if you get results, then great, because we are all different and you never know what your body will respond to. Can you keep us posted on what you're eating? I'd be really interested in this. Because on the TV they don't really show you exactly what it is; they just say "so-and-so lost 50 pounds, buy all the stuff now."

I'd like to recommend something though, based on my own research and what I've learned through getting these qualifications; can you try to drink 12 glasses of water a day? I can't go into why right now, but I'll try to explain later (my mind's not working!). Maybe this is what the diet already recommends, I don't know. I think they remain closely guarded about what the diet actually is until you part with your money.

As you can see, I'm pretty critical of it; it seems like a 'fad' diet to me, but I've never actually spoken to someone who's on it, so keep us posted! I don't mean to be negative. :)

Jordie
xxxx
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theskeptic, well I didn't think of the title for the diet or anything but if you want to think of it that way then the low sugar diet it is. Meat has very very little carbs. One chicken breast has about 1 carb in it so in that sense then it is still a pretty low carb diet. Salad probably has about six depending on what veggies go in the salad. So compared to up to 40 something carbs then I think it is still a pretty low carb diet. I try and stay away from bread unless it is whole wheat because that is much lower in carbs. :l

Bacholorette, *hugs* You are a super friend ;b

Rosebud, I haven't seen Total but I will look out for it. I bought some Total Greek yogurt today which I can have-only 4 carbs! I like my yogurt and I could have it for breakfast. I find bacon and eggs so sickening after awhile.

Anaximenes, don't you worry I drink loads of water so much that I'm peeing like a racehorse. Half the time when people think they are hungry, they are really only thirsty. The diet can be found at Waterstones for 4.99 or you can stand there and skim through the book for free :) I'm sure you might be able to even find it in the library...well maybe this is the UK...and I haven't had the best of luck with libraries having the latest books..but who knows. Nobody should pay large amonts of money to get the info on this diet and it's so simple really. The large part of the book explains just why and how this works as well as following the correct and safe procedures to do this diet. This diet has been around since the 70's so I don't know if that qualifies as a fad. I think it has just had a little more publicity lately.

First novel, that's awesome. I'll be working on one of those next year for my Ph.d in Creative Writing. Good Luck!
;G
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I searched my local library database for atkins books but found absolutely none whatsoever, but decided to buy book in WHSmiths anyway, ?.99, and yes, I'm gradually coming round to the idea of trying it out. :)
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I was one of those people who thought atkins was bad bad bad.

Now I'm reading the book and it makes sense. I read the "bad" things and those are the things I do. I'm going to try this and see if it works for me.

And VenusFetish.... you say that pb and rye toast isn't a good idea, but slimfast is? Even not on atkins, that breakfast gives you complex carbs and protein which give you energy throughout the day. A liquid diet is far, far worse than a low carb diet... even doctors who don't like atkins like Slimfast less. It causes constipation and puts your body into "starvation mode". If you like liquid diets, try Kashi. It's much less sugary and much more balanced (and tastes a HELL of a lot better). It's good if you're in a rush.

So yeah, I'll let you all know how it goes :)
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I've been cutting out refined sugar from my diet (basically everything white--sugar, bread, pasta--and everything processed) and I've seen some great results. Not only has it helped me lose weight, but my teeth are better, and my taste buds aren't so dang dependant on everything being ultra sweet. When I have carbs (wheat bread, fruit, etc) I always try to combine it with some sort of protein and not have very much. It's sort of the scaled down version of the Atikins I think.

How do you feel about artificial sweetners? When I go to low carb sites, they all are super happy about Splenda. Personally, I think it's a very bad idea, considering the lack of knowlegde on how they effect people. My parents used to have Nutrasweet all the time, and when they stopped they suddenly felt better--now if they have it they feel sick. :m
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I haven't exactly been trying to follow a low carb/no carb diet, but I have been making a real effort to reduce the amount of carbs that I've been eating. I know breakfast is an area where I could sure use to improve. (I know of plenty low-carb, high-protien, and low-fat breakfast ideas, I'm just too lazy!)
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Splenda is made from sugar, but I don't know a whole lot about it. My dad is crazy about it and he is mr. paranoid about everything. We were never aloud to have diet anything with sweetner in it. I guess I trust it cuz he does..lol. I think it's like real sugar but it's missing something that sugar ...maybe someone can enlighten us.
I've been eating lots of veg on this diet and I have been eating a lot healthier than I ever have. I actually have a better balance than before when all I had was carbs, carbs, carbs..mostly bready things. I've lost about 25 pounds on this diet in four months and it is coming off a lot slower know which is really the healthiest thing. I needed the kick start to motivate me.
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I've been following a low carb diet for over a month now and I've never even heard of splenda! :n:) Really, it seems as though sugar cravings really do go away after a while, sweet stuff tastes yucky to me now. I don't get fussed about the details, all I know is that the Ketostix are turning purple, and if I check my weight every week or two, it's going down a bit. :)

I think the reason why people have been so against it is because, to be fair, Robert Atkins does seem to like to court controversy. Maybe the controversy isn't necessary, though, because to put the idea in a nutshell, all he's saying is that sugar and starchy stuff is bad for you, and if you want to be healthy, you need to eat good square meals with meat and green vegetables. Up until about 30 years ago, this was common knowledge anyway, but it's only more recently that people have started to understand the science behind it.

So how did the low-fat calorie-counting idea catch on in the first place? When I was young, my parents and grandparents used to tell me that sugar was bad for me too. One day, however, I remember seeing an advertisement for Smithkline Beecham "Lucozade", which was described as being a glucose energy health drink. I looked at the nutrition label, and sure enough, the thing was absolutely packed with sugar and carbohydrates. And this was supposed to be a health drink - I mean, WTF?? :t

But people seemed to believe it. They drank Lucozade because they thought it was good for them. So I thought the same, and reasoned that if Lucozade is good, then anything else high in sugar is also good, and therefore, low-fat diets actually work. When it came to a point where I was actually concerned about my weight, I started eating more bread and pasta. But didn't feel any better for it. It never dawned on me why, at least not until doc diagnosed IBS and I started to read up about food intolerances and weight control, as a result of his inability to give me comprehensive advice about food.

I think the only reason why people take the calorie-counting idea seriously is because loads of money got pumped into advertising low-fat high-carb supposedly healthy foods from the early 1980's onwards, however, on closer inspection, calorie-counting seems to have absolutely no medically proven benefits whatsoever.
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i use splenda on my oats!

it's yummy!!
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jordie says
As you can see, I'm pretty critical of it; it seems like a 'fad' diet to me, but I've never actually spoken to someone who's on it, so keep us posted! I don't mean to be negative
Low carbing has been around longer than the recent "calorie-counting" idea. If anything, it's calorie counting that's the fad, not low carbing.
and also says
I think they remain closely guarded about what the diet actually is until you part with your money.
Good to see a healthy bit of cynicism. There's Robert Atkins "New Diet Revolution", Michael and Margaret Eades "Protein Power" (both of which I have copies of now) and also there's "The Zone", "Neanderthin" and a few others, they're all pretty similar. However, for the benefit of the serious skeptic, Atkins goes to far greater lengths to back up what he says with references to established medical, nutrition and scientific journals than the others do. He also goes into great length about hyperinsulemia, diabetes, heart disease, food intolerances, and even candida overgrowth (which, it seems, is likely to be caused by diets high in sugar and/or starch, plus lots of antibiotics, or mercury amalgam dental fillings).

But with any of these low carb diets, it's not about subscribing to something or buying anything regularly, you can still very much shop around as much as you like for your food, nutritional supplements and health care. Now compare that to something like Slimfast - even before we get into the debate of whether it works or not! ;l

Did anyone see the article in The Times on 15 July (or New York Times 7 July)?
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I guess my point is that if you don't "practice what you preach", don't preach?
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I am not dissing any form of diet but, hmmm I think the best form of diet is just to eat a healthy one, so cut out the crap, junk, go low fat, eat a balanced meal, including carbs, protein, etc and exercise, if you can. Even lifting your arms up and down 10 times a day is exercise if you have never done it before. I dont really favour the atkins diet, cause it can give you the scoots, and too much protein, is not particularly good for your body as is does not hold as much energy as your carbs do and so I would imagine it would burn up quicker leaving you hungry, but it can also mean that your blood can become too acidic, maybe I am exagerrating a bit, I suppose the way I am going on, you would maybe have to eat a 20lb tuna a day. I just think that you should start as you mean to go on. Do you want to be on a diet for the rest of your life? I think peeps, should focus on healthy attitude to life, and eating healthily and exercising a wee bit, will mean that you can continue to do this for the rest of your life, and enjoy it by allowing yourself to have a burger king or mega bar of chocolate every now and then. Hey, I gotta go and follow my own advice, hopefully I will not have pissed people off. But I must say, if the atkins or any other diet makes you happy, that is great, but do you really think you can stick to it for the rest of your life? You have to change your eating habits, that takes unbelieveable effort, I know from personal experience of being overweight for hmmm my life, until a while ago. Ok, I will shut up and stop rambling.

Take care,

L xxxxx:f
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Well, I think that Atkins' theory is basically that "the healthy way" we've thought of for the past 30 years may not BE the healthy way.

But thanks, Shinyspark. :)
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Originally posted by Shinyspark
I dont really favour the atkins diet, cause it can give you the scoots

Haha, this is the EXACT reason why I can't do Atkins. A lot of the high protien stuff that you have to eat with that plan does infact "give me the scoots". Meat, cheese, etc. I can't have too much or else I'm riding the porcelain seat all the next day.

That's why I'm trying for a little more protein (the lower fat variety), fewer bread-pasta-ish carbs, more fruits and veggies (don't eat nearly enough), and more activity.
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I am a nursing student so for the past two years I have been health promoting and we tend to tell people to eat healthier by cutting down on sugars, salts, fats (and by encouraging the more healthy fats eg. polyunsaturates) and exercise eg. walking, we do not tell them to go on a diet, because they can be hard to stick to, I have seen alot of people think they are a complete failure because they ate something "bad" and eat more because of it, and again, I have felt that way. We also say to people if it is an option for them, to join a club like weight watchers, for the social, emotional support. And it encourages the healthy eating, exercise thing. I dont know enough about the Atkins diet to preach about it. As rosebud says, the thing has side effects, and they are not pleasurable ones. But I see the positive aspect of discussing all this as people can then choose for themselves what is right for them. I suppose we can only find what is right for us as individuals. Just be careful about eating animal proteins, too much can be a major factor in osteoporosis in later life, especially in girlies, so says Gabe Mirkin www.drmirkin.com.

"American Heart Association does not recommend high-protein diets for weight loss. Some of these diets restrict healthful foods that provide essential nutrients and don't provide the variety of foods needed to adequately meet nutritional needs. People who remain on these diets very long may be at risk for inadequate vitamin and mineral intake as well as more potential health risks."

"Many Americans follow high-protein diets, such as the Atkins, Zone, Protein Power, Sugar Busters and Stillman diets. However, despite existing for decades, high-protein diets aren't proven effective for long-term weight loss. Like other popular diets, they also pose serious potential health threats for some people who follow them for more than a short time."

I found these on www.americanheart.org. I think it is a big topic to think about and when it involves your health and can affect it in such a big way, you need to know so much about it. Anyways, take care,

L xxxxxxx



http://www.americanheart.org http://www.drmirkin.com
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I just find that the same arguments keep coming up over and over again. Some people believe this and some people believe that and I'll say that there is valid support for both camps.
low-fat diets (for me) didn't prove effective for long term weight loss..I think it's just what works for different people. I guess what just bothers me is that people keep insisting till their blue in the face (I'm not talking about you Shinyspark just making a generalization here) that Atkins is just not healthy without knowing anything about it. I wonder how a diet that actually causes someone who is diabetic, has heart problems and is on medication to lose the weight, lower their cholestrol levels, and virtually stabilize their condition to where they don't have to take anymore meds is unhealthy. I think there is a lot of money involved in propaganda and a lot of books used for education purposes out there funded by organizations whose sole purpose is to support the sugar and wheat industry. The only major thing I can think of that i'm missing from my diet is pasta, bread, everything that is overprocessed and packaged and packed with sugar and some fruit and veg.If it wasn't for this diet I wouldn't be eating any fruit and veg, I used to hate it. I would rather have stuffed my face with blueberries muffins all day
I take two multivitamins a day, vitamin c, calcium, cod liver oil and evening primrose oil everyday to supplement what I might be missing. Oh and lol I only had the "scoots" the first few days and then everything was fine. You can have nuts and dark veg for your fiber which I would highly recommend.
I'm hispanic so I practially grew up on meat so it's what I'm used to. Just missing the rice, but I wasn't that crazy about rice anyway

:O :O
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I think that there is a lot of validty with ethnicity and food processing. I'm of french and english decent... and the french have something going there, since they have such low heart disease rates, but high butter and meat concentrations.

I think that would be something interesting to look into.

I've tried low fat, I've tried vegetarian, I was crazy and did the slim fast thing (got down to 135 and gained it alllll back as soon as I stopped drinking that stuff). Maybe this will work, maybe it won't.

All I know is I start sunday and I know I'll miss 'real' fried chicken and potatos... but I'd rather be healthy.
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Totally agree with Galaxygrl there. To take Shinyspark's points a bit further ....
I think the best form of diet is just to eat a healthy one
I agree there. So how does that then lead on to low fat high carb?
I dont really favour the atkins diet, cause it can give you the scoots
If you get constipated, no big deal, you just add a few more dark green vegetables to your diet. Problem solved. If, on the other hand, you get type 2 diabetes, that's it, you're stuck with it for life, and there's no cure. All you can do is control the symptoms. Is temporary constipation worse than permanent diabetes? I think not.
Do you want to be on a diet for the rest of your life?
I want to be in control of the food I eat, and I want to be able to control it for life. I don't want the food I eat to control me, I've had enough of that already thank you.
we do not tell them to go on a diet, because they can be hard to stick to, I have seen alot of people think they are a complete failure because they ate something "bad" and eat more because of it, and again, I have felt that way
That's because sugars and starches are addictive. Yes, really - a quick study of pretty much any of the low carb books will explain this in terms of blood sugar and insulin levels, and some of them will give references to established medical journal articles to back it up. Low fat and calorie diets don't break the addiction, which is why they are hard to stick to. Going low carb is like giving up smoking, though, sure, it's hard for the first few days, but after that, it gets progressively easier as time goes by.
Some of these diets restrict healthful foods that provide essential nutrients and don't provide the variety of foods needed to adequately meet nutritional needs. People who remain on these diets very long may be at risk for inadequate vitamin and mineral intake as well as more potential health risks.
You tell me of a diet that forbids vitamin and mineral supplements, and I might actually believe that. As for being at risk from more potential health risks - heh, all I can say is that people who learn foreign languages may be at risk of more potential misunderstanding risks. :) They word it in a leading way, but they don't actually say that there really are health risks that outweigh the benefits. No-one knows the long term results of any kind of eating habit.
However, despite existing for decades, high-protein diets aren't proven effective for long-term weight loss.
And calorie counting is?
We also say to people if it is an option for them, to join a club like weight watchers, for the social, emotional support.
I don't quite see how that's not the same as encouraging people to go on a diet. Still, hey, the point is, I've seen compelling evidence that sugars and starches are addictive and can be bad for you. You might say they're not all that bad. So? In the last ten years, many commentators have pointed at statistics which suggest that the rave scene drugs like ecstasy and amphetamines aren't as bad for people as the government propaganda makes out. But that doesn't mean to say that you should actually encourage people to make a habit of them. So why should sugar be any different?

Eskimos and Australian Aborigines have been able to live their whole lives and have children quite happily on a diet that consists of little or no sugar and starch. You don't need sugar to live. And there is plenty of reason to believe that it might be bad for you. Which pretty much puts sugar in the same position as coffee, tobacco, and most illegal drugs if you ask me. Don't you think it's irresponsible for health authorities to push something iffy like sugar on people?

Still, food for thought, though, thanks to everyone for posting, let's keep this thread going. :)
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:) Valid points made I must say squidgy.

Weight watchers points system -

I don't quite see how that's not the same as encouraging people to go on a diet.

Well weight watchers promote healthy eating not diets. Alot of people go to weight watchers as a last resort because "diets" they have used in the past were not helpful. It provides motivation and support, and alot of people, god knows how many hundreds have lost weight following its guidance in healthy eating, and have become more fit as they exercise along with it. You meet people with the same problems with you, you get a new social circle. And its arranged in such a way, that you can continue with it happily for the rest of your life, eating a wide variety of foods, including foods containing sugar. :l

If you get constipated, no big deal, you just add a few more dark green vegetables to your diet. Problem solved. If, on the other hand, you get type 2 diabetes, that's it, you're stuck with it for life, and there's no cure. All you can do is control the symptoms. Is temporary constipation worse than permanent diabetes? I think not.

You do not contract Type II Diabetes by eating a dish of pasta everynight. Or because you ate a slice of toast that morning. Its generally simple sugars that are the problem, eating excessive amounts of these sugary foods, eg. from personal experience, instead of eating one biscuit, eat the whole packet. Carbs are complex sugars, which I am sure you know. They can take motivation to break down, in the form of exercise, be it swinging your arms and legs about or going to the gym or just walking. But it is true that a bowl of pasta will "fill" you more than a piece of chicken or cheese.

It like alot of things, eat in moderation, its bloody hard, but take your protein, Carbs, veg etc and exercise. You dont need to deprive yourself of types of food because you are overweight. Majority of my friends are thin and they eat a balanced diet, not necessarily healthy but they always eat in a way that if they eat loads of chocolate one day, they dont eat as much the next day.

Maybe the Atkins diet has worked for loads of people. Sorry the Atkins diet HAS worked for loads of people, which is great. But personally and professionally I know of more people who have found healthy eating, in the forms of a very varied diet easier to follow and easier to continue after losing weight.

I mean should we only follow the Atkins diet if we are overweight? If you follow a balanced healthy eating plan you can eat like that forever. If we have kids are we going to cut out their carbs incase they put on weight in life? Fill them with protein and supplements incase they end up with diabetes?

People who are overweight or obese for long periods of time need not only advice and support on their diet, but they need psychological support. Obesity is a condition, personally I was a very overweight kid, at 6 years old I was nearly 6 stone. I went to a dietician and followed a healthy eating plan, the weight stayed off for two years and started going back on BECAUSE, I didnt have the support afterwards. It like people who go to weight watchers, continue to go to it after they have lost all their weight, because they need the support. I needed the support. I still need the support, I will always need it. But I have so far managed to stay healthy be fit and eat everything I want to. I know about taking supplements, I am a vegetarian, so I definatley need them, I choose to be a vege for moral beliefs, but I do often forget to take my vitamins, as I have a head on me like a sieve ( maybe you would agree) :) Any doctor I have been to about my weight or worked with has never told me about the benefits of a low carb diet, and I have been looking them up, yes there is evidence that it can be beneficial, but I dont know, whether it is instinct or not, but I am not going to deprive myself of something if I can still lose weight while eating it.

No-one knows the long term results of any kind of eating habit.

ermmmm, we do. We have the internet and are able to look up long terms effects of eating habits, the Atkins diet has been around for yonks and so has eating a varied diet in moderation. We know that if we eat too much crap, become overweight for long periods of time, we are in big trouble, as there are so many health probs we will come into contact with, including psychological and physical, as other people can be pretty nasty.

I know I have blabberd on an awful lot, but I suppose at the end of the day, its what people feel makes them happy. If you follow the atkins diet, calorie counting diets, vege diet, fruit diet, crumb diet, etc and you make sure you get all your nutrients that you need, that you follow some sort of exercise and keep yourself fit, that you feel good, physically, psychologically, well then, keep at it cause it must benefit you some way. But be aware that we all have options and we should explore them before making radical decisions, be that talking to our doctor, or reading every book known to man on the subject, and also try to keep an open mind on other things.

Take care,

Laura xxxxxxx
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Thanks for the replies. :)

You do not contract Type II Diabetes by eating a dish of pasta everynight. Or because you ate a slice of toast that morning.
That's what I thought too, until I read the chapter in Atkins book about insulin - it explains how carbohydrates cause a raise in blood sugar level and how insulin is released by the pancreas to deal with it. It then goes on to explain how frequent consumption of carbohydrates can thereby cause insulin resistance, causing the pancreas to pump out more and more insulin to compensate. It explains how this can cause temporary hypoglycemia, triggering comfort eating whilst causing people to put on weight, and how this leads on to the state where the pancreas is no longer able to keep up. That's type 2 diabetes. And it backs all this up with references to articles in medical journals about experiments that have been done on all this.

So, until I see something that refutes it in the same detail, again pointing at specific studies on this, I'll continue to believe that eating a bowl of pasta every evening may be a factor in the development of type 2 diabetes.
But it is true that a bowl of pasta will "fill" you more than a piece of chicken or cheese.
Apparently it doesn't though, it just makes you put on weight and causes comfort eating habits - again, for the reasons given above.
It like alot of things, eat in moderation, its bloody hard, but take your protein, Carbs, veg etc and exercise.
It really isn't hard at all! :D Like I say, it's hard in the first few days when you're breaking the addiction, but it gets a lot easier after that. :) You speak of deprivation - is it wrong to deprive a smoker of tobacco? Is it wrong to deprive an anorexic of appetite suppressant drugs? Sure, it could be called a deprivation, but the aim is to cure the addiction, so that addicts feel that they're in control of their lives, and that their addictions don't control them. Once you're at that stage, it's no longer a deprivation. I believe the same thing applies to "depriving" comfort eaters of sugar and starch.
Majority of my friends are thin and they eat a balanced diet, not necessarily healthy but they always eat in a way that if they eat loads of chocolate one day, they dont eat as much the next day.
May I ask roughly how old most of these friends are? Are any of them over 60? Any over 40? Any over 20? It makes a difference - because insulin resistance is a thing that gets progressively worse as time goes by. When you're in your teens, you can eat any old crap and it'll be okay, but meanwhile, the insulin resistance is building up. If you carry on eating junk food, then by the time you're in your 50's, 40's, or even your 30's if you're unlucky, it'll hit you. But if you eat healthily, you prevent the problem occurring.
I mean should we only follow the Atkins diet if we are overweight? If you follow a balanced healthy eating plan you can eat like that forever. If we have kids are we going to cut out their carbs incase they put on weight in life? Fill them with protein and supplements incase they end up with diabetes?
Well - I think it might be a good idea. :)
I went to a dietician and followed a healthy eating plan, the weight stayed off for two years and started going back on BECAUSE, I didnt have the support afterwards.
Are you sure that's the only reason? Can you honestly say that carbohydrates were being controlled in the meantime? If not, then I suggest that there was underlying addiction that wasn't being dealt with. Through no fault of your own, I hasten to add - but you don't go to a rehab centre to get loaded - as they say in 28 Days. :) And perhaps that's what effectively happened to you, so I'm not really surprised that the weight went back on again.
ermmmm, we do. We have the internet and are able to look up long terms effects of eating habits, the Atkins diet has been around for yonks and so has eating a varied diet in moderation.
ermmm - correction, we think we do, but we don't really. No-one's ever done any controlled studies on this. Studies on controlled diets have only been performed on people for a few months at most, partly due to the ethical questionability of denying people's basic rights by locking them up, forcing them to eat a controlled diet and performing experiments on them for a significant portion of their natural lives, and partly due to the costs of actually housing and feeding people on such a long term basis. Scientists have been quick to jump to conclusions about long term effects, but they have never been able to control all the external variables that might make a difference.

But of course - if you're able to point me towards the published result of a controlled human diet study of more than a few years, I'll rethink.

imagine says
no one is saying that atkins works for everyone. it just is not right for all people, no matter how you slice it. neither is any particular diet. but it is up to each person AND their physician, to come up with a plan that is right for them.
Agree there - most particularly, I'd encourage people to read the book before doing it. Many of the criticisms come from people who don't really know what low carbing is about, and that's fine, but if someone were to get the idea that they think they know what it's about into their heads, and then start following a misinterpretation - that could be dangerous.

In particular, if you're taking diuretics for a kidney problem, or you're a diabetic taking insulin, then cutting carbs down to less than 100g a day whilst continuing to take the medication will be very dangerous. Low-carbing is still possible, but it would be necessary to taper off the medications at the same time, and you'd be strongly recommended to get professional advice about this before doing it.

More minor issues is that some people may also have candida yeast overgrowths, or specific food intolerances. Again it's still possible to follow a low carbohydrate diet under all these conditions (in fact there's good reason to believe that low carbing will help to cure systemic candidiasis), but not without making sure you know what you're doing first.
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If you sit around eating carbs, doing no exercise you will put on weight, if you sit around eating anything in vast amounts, and do nothing to work it off you will put on weight. You put on weight when you eat more than what you burn off during activity. I dont know, I must imagine people who walk around eating what they like in a varied diet who are average weight for their height. Where their BMI is average. If you have kids and you put them on a diet that deprives them of carbs well i would like to see the relationship they have with food when they are older.It really isn't hard at all! Like I say, it's hard in the first few days when you're breaking the addiction, but it gets a lot easier after that.

It really isn't hard at all! Like I say, it's hard in the first few days when you're breaking the addiction, but it gets a lot easier after that. You speak of deprivation - is it wrong to deprive a smoker of tobacco? Is it wrong to deprive an anorexic of appetite suppressant drugs? Sure, it could be called a deprivation, but the aim is to cure the addiction, so that addicts feel that they're in control of their lives, and that their addictions don't control them. Once you're at that stage, it's no longer a deprivation. I believe the same thing applies to "depriving" comfort eaters of sugar and starch.

hmmm, oh so you are in control of your carb intake you dont actually fear carbs? cause you are going to end up dying of the complications of diabetes if you do eat a carb, from what I see you have a damn bad relationship with carbs you appear scared of them. starch and sugar can benefit our bodies. I hike so i NEED my carbs to get up a mountain and if i didnt have them i would probably end up rolling down it when i am half way up.

It isnt hard? well gee you must be bloody great, when I DEPRIVE myself of my diet coke cause i am ADDICTED TO CAFFIENE i go bloody mad. You must have the best willpower in the world, wow a couple of days and you are grand! What is your secret? my sister has tried to stop smoking 20 billion times and she still smokes, but hey its just an addiction, a couple of days and like you said, its easy. ok i will give up sugars and starch for a couple of days and i will tell you if it is easy or not. like i said it depends on the person, If stopping eating sweets was so easy i wouldnt be on depression tablets at the moment would i? because i wouldnt have lost so much self confidence for being fat for so long, Cause giving up sugar is so easy, yep sure.

By the way if you tell your children not to eat this that the other they will have a worse relationship with food than what you have. its proven when you deprive kids of certain foods they rebel, and eat what you dont want them to eat behind your back, I did it. i am sick of talking about this, this is a discussion that will go on forever, i know what i know, you know what you know, who cares.

take care all

Laura xxx
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*doing mod-ly duty again*

Think I need to say this again --we can disagree but there is no need to get snippy, mean, or resort to attacking people. Don't know about the rest of y'all but I come here to find support, not get defensive. Not saying its gotten to the point where I need to take action, but I don't want it to get to that point. I like to keep this place relatively peaceful.

Like the threats our parents used to issue on long trips "Don't make me come back there!!" or "I'm gonna turn this forum right around and go home if you don't knock it off!" ;)

Serious people, just try to keep it peaceful ok?


*end doing mod-ly duty*
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I just want to say sorry, I have a lot of crap going on in my life, not that that is any concern to anyone but I never meant to put myself across in such an autocratic manner, "attack anyone, be mean or snippy" while expressing my opinions. So I will call it a day, I was made to feel pretty hmmm not so one of the guys, but what do I expect when I say something that not alot of people agree with or can actually see from a different point of view, like I said, Atkins helps alot of people, but alot of people here just decided to completely squash my ideas of eating, so there you go, it worked for me, but I guess you dont want to hear that. I was 104kg I got down to 58 kg and I am happy enough with myself, it is taking time but doesnt everything, and it was the best achievement of my life, I am 20, I didnt want to be sad for the rest of my life. I was just concerned about atkins for health reasons, no biggy, its your choice, be happy. I think sometimes we cant help but be defensive when it comes to our weight, its a pretty sensitive subject, you know? Its really hard to make a generalisation in this room, someone is always going to disagree, unfortunatley it was me and obviously its implied that this message, sent by miss modly duty person, is pretty much aimed at me. Please dont bother replying to this message, its not worth it.

Our worst enemies are ourselves, look beyond what you think you are, find who you are and other people will see it too. Well, thats me, take care, hope you all find contentment within yourselves,

Laura xoxoxoxox
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No I will reply to this, I believe its worth it.I didn't really approach this the right way (there's crap in my life right now too...). Lemme try again...

My whole point was that I try to keep this place where no one HAS to get defensive about what they do. People can disagree with what you are doing, and tell you good and bad things, but its ultimately up to you what you do with your body and life. There just has to be a point where people have to think "You do things your way, I'll do things mine, Agree to disagree". I sorta saw this going in the complete opposite direction. (And I might be wrong ok)

**There is one area I will not tolerate this though-when people promote things like starvation, purging, laxatives, etc. But that isn't what this thread was about, so don't worry about that.

I just wanted people not to have to feel like they have to be "up in arms" (for lack of a better phrase?) about how they chose to lose/maintain weight, be fit, etc as long as it doesn't breach the "dangerous behaviour" line because we all have different things that work for us. Atkins isn't for everyone, just as it may work for some people.

(And I do agree with you on how hard it is to give up sugar/carbs. I cringe at the thought of actually trying)

And it wasn't aimed at you in specific. It was aimed at EVERYONE. I'm sorry if I made it seem that way, like I said I didn't really phrase it correctly.
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I do think I repeatedly said that atkins does work for people, I never doubted that it didnt, but I am going to shut up about it, I respect that it is a persons choice to eat what they feel they need, to lose weight, all our ideas differ and we should help eachother instead of drive eachother mad. Its your choice what diet /eating plan you choose, but just make sure you look at the implications. Which I am sure everyone does, so I will stop stating the obvious. Thanks for replying Rosebud, it was much appreciated.
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As it happens, I'm currently having second thoughts about the low-carb idea. Will catch up on reading the replies on this thread, then post more about it in a moment. :)
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Pretty much agree with what rosebud has said, and what laura's questions have been useful, because it makes me question why I do it. :) I certainly don't intend to come across as ungrateful.

Okay so now to be a bit more honest about where I'm coming from. In the latter half of last year, I had a job, and a social life, but I was also somewhat heavier than I had ever been at any time earlier in my life. Naturally I thought comfort eating might be the cause. Oh, and also, I often became lethargic in the afternoons, a little while after having lunch. So when I read the bit in the Atkins book about hypoglycemic attacks - that struck a chord.

I might not have made such a big deal out of it, but earlier on in the year, the doctor had diagnosed IBS. I was thinking a little bit about food before that, but when he said that I should try to avoid food that I might be allergic to, but failed to give more specific advice than that, then this sort of focussed my mind on food a bit.

Low carb dieting seemed to be the first thing that really addressed all of these concerns. I read about half of Atkins. It would appear that I had lost about a stone in six months without consciously trying as it was, which was kinda good, but also slightly bothered me. But hey. Ketostix reading before starting was faintly purple too but I thought nothing of this, I was after the promised energy boost. So I started Atkins diet. Ketostix went deeply purple. :)

Thing is, I didn't really feel any better. On the plus side, I didn't feel any worse, though, and I do think that it has helped me quit smoking, although I'm still on the patch now. I also feel slightly better informed, and more in control of food. But on the minus side, I've started resorting to ephedrine again.

It seems that the consensus of medical opinion is that the idea that insulin resistance causes weight gain and diabetes is actually right. However, the idea that insulin resistance is caused by consumption of carbohydrates, whilst being unaffected by protein and fat, is something of an oversimplification, although it does have some truth in it.
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