Hi, i'm hoping for some advice please...

I am a sole trader, and was working for a guy in London, From September to December, who has not paid me for work completed, or materials/ hotel costs/ parking fines (which he agreed to pay)

The total cost owed to myself is in excess of ?000 and I am now in financial ruin because of this one job that has not paid.

The person who owes me the money, is not responding to any commiunication, and has even changed his phonenumber and told people not to give it to me.

I have told him that if he does not pay within 14 days (three weeks ago), then I am taking him to court.

I just need to know where I stand on this... do I just complete the forms and send them off? (Or via MCOL) and then wait??

And does anybody know what the chances of actually getting any money back are?

I really am at my wits end now, as I can't even afford to pay my rents, or household bills.
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Sorry to hear of your problems.

First thing is to make sure your paper trail is in order: your contract/agreement with him, your diary, your invoices to him etc. This is your proof that he owes you the money.
If this is in order then a court case will be far more likely to be successful.

However, even if you take him to court and he gets a CCJ, you still have the problem and expense of getting him to pay up - some people just don't care.

I suggest asking on here for a B2B credit collection agency (eg Cred-X) who tend to be much more successful and quicker than the small claims.

Good luck :)
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Okay, so where are these B2B credit collection agencies? And how do I get in touch?
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As ?000 exceeds the small claims limit you should definately attempt to get this dealt with via a debt collector initially. The court system can be time consuming and there are opportunities to prolong the time span. A debt collector can also let you know what the financial health of the person owing you money is like as if they are insolvent your chances of success will be limited.
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Hello.

Sorry to hear of your plight. Antonia is right you need to contact a debt collector for this, why not central enforcement agency, he is a member on this forum and he does work for us, and he always gets his man.!!!!

Regards
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Thanks so much for all your advice, I have sent a PM to central enforcement and Cred-X to see if it is something they may be able to hlep with
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Thanks so much for all your advice, I have sent a PM to central enforcement and Cred-X to see if it is something they may be able to hlep with

Good move, I think, and best of luck.

A good friend of mine was in a very similar position a few years ago and I know how horrid it was for him.
I hope you get your money out of this person, they don't deserve to get away with things like this.
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A statutory demand might be the thing here but wait for Cred-x's advice
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Hi Aironaught,

Agree with whats been said so far in that get your case ready with copies of agreement/contract, any correspondence, receipts for materials etc. Have you written a Letter Before Action yet - just as a formality advising that you will take legal action to recover the debt if not paid within 5 days. Are there any reasons for you to not be paid such as disputes etc that need to be settled. The reason that I say this is that you do not want to throw good money after bad if you think the debtor has an excuse of any sort to not pay you so try to reduce the risk of this if you can.

You don't say whether the guy that owes you money owes you this as a ltd company or as himself (self employed).

I would suggest you go through a debt collection agent so that they can advise on the best way to chase this but you do need to move quickly and go to someone reputable as chances are that your debtor is also likely to owe other people money too.

Due to value of the debt I think a Stat Demand would be best route and likely to be most effective as threat of personal bankruptcy or winding up more severe than adding to a collection of CCJ's that still need to be enforced. Even though this costs more there is no messing around for straight forward high value debts and is likely to get more of a reaction.

Good luck
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Maxine,
Thanks, there is no reason for him not to pay, all work was completed to a high standard, and much of the debt is for materials which were put onto my account. There is no 'written' agreement, as I was to submit invoices for payment (which I have done).
The guy who owes me money is not part of a ltd company, he is self-employed.
I have heard rumours that he is facing bankruptcy, so I'm obviously concerned that I'm not going to get anything back. I do know that he is a partner in a pub (he owns around 50% of the pub) but I assume this is treated separately.

I will have read about statutory demand, and wait for some replies to my PM's.
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Hiya

Have a look at http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/bankruptcy/bankruptcysearch.htm

Considering the rumours you have heard you need to get your debt added to the list of debts that he owes if there is an IVA or Bankruptcy petition underway but have to say it doesnt sound very good and you might not get much if anything back. If he owns 50% of a pub then all of his personal assets and funds will be taken into consideration with a bankruptcy. You may look to see if you can get a charge over the property ... perhaps but it's not that easy and you need to seek detailed advice.

In the meantime are you able to recover any of your materials to reduce your loss?

Also even if you had no written agreement did you submit a proposal or quote in writing and was this accepted again in writing even if by email?
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HI

I have sent you a pm in reply to this I can help you with any route you wish, Answer your pm and ill talk over your options on the phone. Please dont do anything until you have taken our or cred X advice. It is free and it can save you paying money to chase your money.

Thanks
simon
central enforcement agency
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I don't agree with the view about passing to a "debt collection company". Without a Court Judgment, the debtor can simply ignore the creditor. I have many years experience of debt recovery litigation and it never ceases to amaze me how many large organisations will instruct several debt collection companies to chase the same debt. The debt collection agent will send out those "final demands", make phone calls and maybe a door knock. Then often the organisation will send it to another debt collector if the first one has not recovered the debt and they will go through the same round of threatening court action. If a debtor has disputed the debt or is clearly not going to pay then it is going to be necessary to get a court judgment. If a debtor has said he's not going to pay or disputes it, then a debt collection company that simply plays the broken record technique of sending endless letters may be open to accusations of harassment.

After sending a letter before action giving the debtor an appropriate time to respond/pay, the creditor should then consider if the debtor is good for the money or not. If the debtor has the means, then a court claim should be issued. To issue court proceedings, a creditor can either complete and sign the Claim Form himself whereby acting as a litigant in person or instruct a solicitor to act on his behalf. A debt collector does not have the right to litigate.

It is not advisable to go down the route of issuing a Statutory Demand without first having obtained a Court Judgment. I have much experience of a debtor successfully setting aside a Statutory Demand by raising a dispute, even though it seemed there was no issue about the debt being due. The threshold for courts setting aside Statutory Demands is quite low and if the debtor succeeds then you will have to pay his costs.

Admittedly the court system is slow and court fees are high, but that is an argument for lobbying the Government to properly fund the county courts. There also a need for a system of enforcing court judgments which has teeth which is not the case at present. Hopefully, when the Tribunal Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 comes fully into effect, the enforcment system may improve.

Anthony Reeves
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I think it does depend on the debt collection company, many now have established links to ensure credit searches are carried out. This can save the creditor time and wasted legal costs in the long run and certainly are well aware of their responsibilities in terms of legitimate contact with the debtor. Ultimately if the debtor has no means and no assets the end result is no payment to the creditor.

Stat demands, in my view are of limited use, unless the debtor has clearly, and in writing, indicated there is no dispute over the amount requested and has the means to pay.

Similarly with summons applications for ?K, if the debtor is insolvent the creditor is simply adding to the debt so care needs to be taken before investing in legal advice and court fees as to the debtors ability to pay.
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It is also the case that some firms of solicitors specialise in debt collection and can therefore deal with procedings after producing a Letter Before Action.

The one I use is Thomas Higgins:-

http://www.thomashiggins.com/

Best of luck.
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Hi,

Nice to see different views on this matter. I disagree that court action is the way it depends on each case. Yes we need the courts to gain the ccj against the debtor.

We are handling this case and we have done our case research ie land and credit searches and also gained all the information about the case. We have served the stat demand on the debtor as the debt is over ?0k. We also found the debtor was made bankrupt and discharged. We also spoke to the insolvency company that handled the bankruptcy and it turned out that our client wasnt named in the petition.

So the stat demand was issued and served. We have also applied to the court for a judgement only so we can attach an order on the debtors property. We will also be getting our company solicitor to go to court and see if we can get a force of sale. We the evidence we have we have a 99% chance of securing this order we also have the backing of the receiver as he has failed to comply with the terms or the petition.

How ever we do stand the chance of him applying for the demand to be set aside.

What Im trying to say is not all debt collection companies are bad boys, we do make ever effort to secure payment without the court system and solicitors as this is further costs to our clients. Stat demands do work better but there is a debt limit before issuing them.

So debt collection and credit management companies do use the courts, This does have a result but on my experience a low percentage is collected.

No days people seem to think that a ccj is a fashion statement just like an asbo:).

It use to stop people getting credit in the past but not now.

Hope you all understand what Im trying to say.

thanks
simon
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Some interesting views here. A good debate.
Yes, the key factor is the circumstances of each case. As I said in my previous post, court action is appropriate if the debtor has means. Obviously under the pre-action protocols, court action should be avoided if possible but if the debtor has means and simply won't pay then court action is appropriate.
I would also say that most businesses do have (or should have) a good credit manager who is capable of doing the pre-legal stages of action so that if they have not been able to collect the debtthey are then in the position to decide whether to issue proceedings, or if not worth purusuing, to write the debt off.

Anthony Reeves
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Great debate, definitely each case on its own merits, perhapps CCJ - bailiff, CCJ - charging order on property, CCJ - Garnishee order on a known debt or asset, Stat demand - petition bankruptcy/winding up, petition for administration, etc, lots of opportunities for recovery.

Simon (Centralenforce), just a little concerned about part of your posting, although of course full facts of case are not apparent here so this might not be an issue, but if you are chasing a debt that would have formed part of this guys bankruptcy estate, obviously you can't do that and if it gets to court and you have done this I would feel uncomfortable on your position re costs.

Even if discharged and you can chase as it is a post bankruptcy debt, I am surprised this guy has property with equity in it, unless of course his bankruptcy was years ago, but if there is little equity your chances of possession and sale wouldn't be great.

As I said though, full info is not apparent so none of this may be an issue, if it is though please feel free to post more queries.
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Hi Kevin,

Your right in what you have posted if that was the case. We wouldnt chase a debtor who was bankrupt. We have spoken to the insolvency company that dealt with this matter.. Our client wasnt mentioned in the petition at all. However the charging order on the debtors property made by the bankruptcy trustee is ?0,000.

So we are able to chase this debt in the form of the demand. We carry out all checks and speak to relevant departments before we instruct our clients. We also have a local law firm we run everything past before we commence proceedings this is done to secure a successful collection and to avoid any errrors.

I hope this helps

Simon

Thanks
simon
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