Has anyone taken over someone's books only to discover the horrors that other bookkeepers leave behind?

I had one where the client wrote a cheque to a supplier, and because the bookkeeper couldnt find invoices to that amount, he made one up! Instead of getting a statement from the supplier to see what was missing, he jsut thought he would insert his own one!

He also didnt put in any VAT, and it was quite a large amount, so the client lost out on claiming about ?00 VAT!

Do people realise the impact of their actions do you think? Or are they just desperate to get their debits and credits to agree?

Another one I have found is those who cannot find invoices at all, and just post the payments as a payment on account, but never bother to get the invoices, therefore the cost never goes to the P&L, AND the VAT is never claimed resulting in higher profit and therefore more tax to pay as well.
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It happens all of the time. Many of our clients have excellent bookkeepers, but far too many have been the victims of people who do not know what they are doing.

I've seen "bookkeeping" that was limited to simply listing all of the invoices for the year (well nearly all of them!) on a spreadsheet.

I've seen the Sage records sprinkled with payments on account and credit balances on accounts, with no apparent effort to tidy them up.

Things fall down at a number of levels. Too many people set up as bookkkeepers to earn some extra cash. Perhaps they've done a Sage course at college, which might get them past an exam but doesn't equip them for the real world. Or they've done some record keeping for a friend/relative, and think that equips them to offer the service more widely. The reality is that work done in one environment is usually totally different from that in another business, and in the real world they simply don't know enough.

The other problem is the business owner, who might think that with a bookkeeper he doesn't have to do anything except throw unopened envelopes into a box. No filling in cheque stubs, indicating which are cash payments, keeping copies of paying in slips or anything like that for him!

When we do bookkeeping for clients we agree (i.e. we tell them in no uncertain terms!) how the information is to be filed and presented, and the notes required to enable us to process it efficiently and correctly.
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David - do you document this or is it verbal?
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David - do you document this or is it verbal?

It's in a manual that we give to them
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I think anyone with much experience at all in practice will have similar experiences.

Nothing here sounds unfamiliar to me. Everything can be sorted too... but it can make it hard on time management when surprises occur.

A few years ago I was contracting to a practice in Manchester. Went in to a new client with the Managing Director of the practice, for an introductory meeting to simply reconcile the accounts, setup management reporting, and go through the systems and processes in place.

A few minutes after looking at their accounting system (Sage) I realised it wasn't even close to a stage for me to get involved. New accounts created (eg Fuel as a Motor Vehicle Asset), figures simply posted everywhere.

The previous accountants had simply been taking a monthly standing order and doing little... since the client felt the receptionist/office junior was quite capable of handling the books... after all, it is only entering a few transactions!

Two weeks full-time with our assistant accountant (she's still with us here thankfully) sorting it out and back on track.

I really don't think that is anything out of the ordinary and I'm sure I could rattle off a dozen more real stories along the same lines. All I can highly recommend now is getting on top of it, not simply plugging transactions into software but reconciling it fully at very least... and I'd like to think producing management accounts and giving them some thought.

For some reason I will never understand (seriously!) business owners continue to give their books a low priority when apart from the actual product/service they are arguably the single most important aspect of a business.

David Toohey
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Of course, the other problem is that the client actually expects a reduction in fees because of the "work" that the bookkeeper has done. :eek:

That means that it's sometimes necessary to document everything that has gone wrong and has to be put right. It's essential to do this before you correct things if an argument over charges is to be avoided. Alas, all too often we've charged on and put things right first. :redface:
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It happens all of the time ..... Too many people set up as bookkkeepers to earn some extra cash. Perhaps they've done a Sage course at college, which might get them past an exam but doesn't equip them for the real world. Or they've done some record keeping for a friend/relative, and think that equips them to offer the service more widely. The reality is that work done in one environment is usually totally different from that in another business, and in the real world they simply don't know enough.


You can see it happening on here all the time, people who've done a Sage course ..... AAT at college or uni ..... been a bookkeeper for one company for 10 years, etc, etc and somehow these people think they have the skills and experience to deal with a 'spread' of companies.

I also think a lot of it comes down to the fact that people seem to think they can set up a bookkeeping business 'just like that', and of course it is the clients who suffer ..... the number of 'bookkeepers' that come on here and ask a question, and I'm thinking to myself (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) "are you for real ......"

At the end of the day, this sort of experience happens in most business sectors ..... and in most business sectors they are called cowboys, or cowgirls to be PC ;)

A few jumbled thoughts there - but it IS sunday after all!! :D
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A while ago I took on a new client who runs a wee clothes shop for her retirement. The nice lady wasn't sure about the bookeeping so she took the advice of her business gateway and got a bookeeeper they recommended.

This bookeeper charged her ?50 for a sage package, installed on the bookeepers laptop and billed her at least 5 hours a week, every week. The bookeeper insisted that she keep a record of all her customers names and addresses (cash sales!) then raised sales invices for all of them. Then posted the cash received as a bank payment to sales.... (With vat included when not vat registered).

At the time of our appointment, bookeeper was trying to get client to write a cheque to HMCE for the vat due...
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Mistakes happen at all levels and especially the lower down the professional ladder you step. Good idea to be scrutinous of all work prepared by another firm.

A few years ago I was engaged to carry out a reconmciliation of a large retailers, 200 outlets, sales control account which they had been having trouble balancing, the previous financial controller had left without resolving the problem.

I found there appeared to be gaps in the receipts for some outlets, most of the money coming through credit card machines. Sometimes these machines fail or as happened in this case some machines had developed a fault or the manager was on holiday and the temporary staff didn't know what to do. What had been happening is the credit card receipts had been stuffed in an envelope and posted with the till receipts to head office but head office didn't always check them as they got the sales figures and receipts electronically.

End result, I spent a few days opening every envelope and found manual credit card vouchers for some ?0,000 that had never been banked because the automated credit card machine had failed to function and credit the company.
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You can see it happening on here all the time, people who've done a Sage course ..... AAT at college or uni ..... been a bookkeeper for one company for 10 years, etc, etc and somehow these people think they have the skills and experience to deal with a 'spread' of companies.

I also think a lot of it comes down to the fact that people seem to think they can set up a bookkeeping business 'just like that', and of course it is the clients who suffer ..... the number of 'bookkeepers' that come on here and ask a question, and I'm thinking to myself (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) "are you for real ......"

At the end of the day, this sort of experience happens in most business sectors ..... and in most business sectors they are called cowboys, or cowgirls to be PC ;)

:D



Mistakes happen at all levels and especially the lower down the professional ladder you step. Good idea to be scrutinous of all work prepared by another firm.

I think you are insulting AAT members. I am AAT and ACCA qualified. Recently I went to a practice who is a FCA. I was checking their files and their files were worst then I keep my personal files.

I got involved in another mess, FD was CIMA, the FC trained in mid-tier firm. Their combined earning was ?00,000. They made every mistake you can think of. They had a sage and they were using spread sheet to raise invoices. They set up bank account as nominal account. And they used another bank account to post to supplier but money was paid from the first bank account! Even worse, they posted net wages paid as gross wages cost!!!
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I kind of agree with RAL, I have had accountants making mistakes too, such as preparing accounts on a cash basis, which you arent meant to do, then when I pick it up at the beginning of the next year, there are no b/f debtors or creditors ledger, yet I have lots of payments and receipts for invoices in the previous year.

I then have to post them in the current year with a false date.
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It would appear that this thread is in danger of slipping into the old bookkeeper -v- part qualified -v- qualified ..... Everybody knows of a bad experience where they have had to come to the rescue, I suppose (as stated before) it's part of this, and every other industry were people dont cut the mustard.

EVERYBODY has their own qualities. :)
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Every body makes mistakes...simple as that. Qualified or un-qualified. ANyone who thinks they haven't then they obviously don't do any work.

And it is not a mistake but a proper disaster then the letters after anyones name will not help!!

Even with bookkeeping industry heading towards certification it will not stop the mistakes happen.

As the other posts have stated ACA/ACCA/CIMA members have all made mistakes.

I think referal/referencing is far better than any qualification, although it does help to have that qualification :)
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I then have to post them in the current year with a false date.

Not correct to enter false information
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[quote=Nicster;624417]I kind of agree with RAL, I have had accountants making mistakes too, such as preparing accounts on a cash basis, which you arent meant to do, then when I pick it up at the beginning of the next year, there are no b/f debtors or creditors ledger, yet I have lots of payments and receipts for invoices in the previous year.

I then have to post them in the current year with a false date.[/quote

Some firms use Sage line 50 to prepare accounts be entering all the bank transactions on a cash basis as you suggest and then by adusting for debtors, creditors etc as J/Es.

This is usually the case for those engaged to prepare cash basis vat returns.
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